Return of Reckoning

Fenris78 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:41 pm I did some maths and obviously it's hardly a nerf for light armored classes, considering pretty much every physical dps running with 75% arpen (50% at worst).

So let say you have endgear light armor of 2000, with heavy reliance on armor tali, let's say 6 x (out of the 7 or 8 you can fit), and you are hit by a 50% to 75% arpen enemy (choppa/slayer, Mara, SH/SW, WH/WE can easily achieve those values) :

Before :
2000 + (6*180) = 3080 armor
3080 * 0.25 = 770 armor left = 17.5% mitigation.
3080 * 0.5 = 1540 armor left = 35% mitigation.

Now :
2000 + (6*136) = 2816 armor
2816 * 0.25 = 704 armor left = 16% mitigation.
2816 * 0.5 = 1408 armor left = 32% mitigation.

The difference is about 3% less mitigation against the baseline arpen values, and 1.5% against max arpen. That will hardly makes any difference in survival for light-armored classes.
Mitigation difference is exactly the same for medium armored (around 3400 base) and Heavy armors (around 4800 base) = about 1.5% to 3% for 6 slotted talismans, against 75% and 50% arpen respectively.

Plus the talisman "nerf" will not change other bonuses (tactics, potions and buffs), and definately not affect armor debuffs efficiency since they are flat amounts.
Not really a big deal at the end, IMO.

Grock wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:35 pm

Fenris78 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:41 pm I did some maths and obviously it's hardly a nerf for light armored classes, considering pretty much every physical dps running with 75% arpen (50% at worst).

So let say you have endgear light armor of 2000, with heavy reliance on armor tali, let's say 6 x (out of the 7 or 8 you can fit), and you are hit by a 50% to 75% arpen enemy (choppa/slayer, Mara, SH/SW, WH/WE can easily achieve those values) :

Before :
2000 + (6*180) = 3080 armor
3080 * 0.25 = 770 armor left = 17.5% mitigation.
3080 * 0.5 = 1540 armor left = 35% mitigation.

Now :
2000 + (6*136) = 2816 armor
2816 * 0.25 = 704 armor left = 16% mitigation.
2816 * 0.5 = 1408 armor left = 32% mitigation.

The difference is about 3% less mitigation against the baseline arpen values, and 1.5% against max arpen. That will hardly makes any difference in survival for light-armored classes.
Mitigation difference is exactly the same for medium armored (around 3400 base) and Heavy armors (around 4800 base) = about 1.5% to 3% for 6 slotted talismans, against 75% and 50% arpen respectively.

Plus the talisman "nerf" will not change other bonuses (tactics, potions and buffs), and definately not affect armor debuffs efficiency since they are flat amounts.
Not really a big deal at the end, IMO.

Basically this.

The only thing to add is relative increase of inc dmg - in first case it went from 82.5% dmg to 84% dmg, which is 1.8% increase, and in second case it went from 65% dmg to 68% dmg, which is 4.6% increase. As you can see the effect is more noticeable for higher armor values, while at low armor it is very negligible.

If you take debuffs into account the difference becomes even smaller because you'll be hitting against even lower numbers.

p.s. choppa/slayer definitely don't reach 75% armor pen "easily", we have to invest a lot of sacrifice some things, but its an overkill anyway imo

Greenbeast wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:18 pm I can only suggest you to stop theory crafting around solo/duo groups and think about other classes that can bring stackable, single target or aoe armor debuff.
The nerf is 10% mitigation for light armor classes. If you think that they difference between 10 and 20% mitigation is insignificat then fine.
I'm not talking about pugs/zerg scenarios. In this scenarios you can disable half of the game mechanics and the game will stay the same.
What I'm talking about are premades that can spike you for 8000 HP/Second during the knock down. In that scenario 10% mitigation is equal of 2-3 seconds that maybe will allow second healer to react.
But keep pretending that it's dosent matter. For your class it's defenitely not a problem because your class benefits from this change more than anybody else.

Hugatsaga wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:30 pm My spreadsheet (although I copied that from someone smarter than me) says its something like 5%-7% phys dmg mitigation nerf under normal circumstances. After additional armor debuffs, armor bypassing abilities or with stupid high armor pen the talisman nerf difference is obviously less. Hey its even 0% if you compare getting AW'd in the back before and after nerf but thats hardly good and accurate situation for calculation. Neither is 75% pen if you ask me but now that the 1,5% number is out there I'm already seeing people parroting it in advice and region chat and saying its no big deal. Oh well.

Sov zeal, Warping the Spirit procced, armor debuffed by WL. with 180's:

Spoiler:

Sov zeal. Warping the Spirit procced, armor debuffed by WL. With 136's:

Spoiler:

Edit ignore the part where it says has 3x BL and skaven ring on, thats not the case in this example: only full sov, warping and 180's/136's.

xanderous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:11 am Gives WH aoe armor debuff then nerfs armor talismans, nothing suspicious here.