[Sorceress/Bright Wizzard] Dark Magic / Combustion Backlashs

[Sulorie]

I'm 100% sure that the extra damage from "critdamage increase tactics" was not affected by trivial blows.

I am 100% sure it had an effect. It was the difference of being killed during KD or not.

[Sulorie]

Depends on tier and type of dps.
Early game AM has better dps and similar healing. True

End game RP has better better single target, Totally wrong

much better aoe dps and better healing/group support. True

Better in group setting with higher damage or better healing and ability to switch role. Depends on the group setup but better healing option in DPS spec is true due to their mechanic.

Am have better solo damage over multiple targets particularly within 65ft. Yes, for PVE only.

[Luth]

I'm 100% sure that the extra damage from "critdamage increase tactics" was not affected by trivial blows.

I am 100% sure it had an effect. It was the difference of being killed during KD or not.

Because it reduced the base increased damage from the crit, but not the extra damage from the tactics. The bw/sorc mechanic is not increased by any tactic, so TB reduces the increased damaged completely.
Maybe i'm completely wrong, but we are obviously both making allegations here without any evidence.
So please stop using " " so excessive. It doesn't make a statement true. It just make you look very arrogant.

[Lheana]

This topic started only with a simple bug report and see where we are now ...

This discussion is useless cause there will always have opposite views about classes : some will find the BW/Sorc hurt too much, others will find their damages are compensed by their squishy side and lack of skills like snare, KD ... Concerning AM/shaman, some will find it's useless, others will find it's an usefull class ... And it will be the same with every classes you will be able to talk about.
Honestly, making a list of each positive and negative points of each class won't be helpful imo.

[noisestorm]

I'm 100% sure that the extra damage from "critdamage increase tactics" was not affected by trivial blows.

I am 100% sure it had an effect. It was the difference of being killed during KD or not.

Because it reduced the base increased damage from the crit, but not the extra damage from the tactics. The bw/sorc mechanic is not increased by any tactic, so TB reduces the increased damaged completely.
Maybe i'm completely wrong, but we are obviously both making allegations here without any evidence.
So please stop using " " so excessive. It doesn't make a statement true. It just make you look very arrogant.

Well for the upper Quotes we just need to know if the Tactic/BW Mechanic was multiplicative or additive.
like:
100 base dmg + 50 normal crit + 50%crit damage (50% of 50% = 25) = 175 dmg.
or
100 base + 50 crit + 50%extra crit of base damage = 200 dmg
or even number 3 (like the WH tactic for example reads : "Your critical Hits deal 50%more dmg" -> i read that as if my hit crits it deals and additional 50% to the damage it already doe )
and that would be
100 base + 50% basecrit = 150 + 50% = 225 dmg ..

So TB states "reduces the Critical Damage taken"
for case #1 it reduces => 37.5 dmg
#2 => 50 dmg
and
#3 => 100 base + 25% crit (halved thanks to TB) = 125 +50% of that = 187.5 => 37.5 dmg reduced

In either way TB would reduce some damage, the question is just how much. but i guess were going offtopic again?
i'd still say raise the selfinflicted dmg from higher combustion huehue

[Luth]

This topic started only with a simple bug report and see where we are now ...

This discussion is useless cause there will always have opposite views about classes : some will find the BW/Sorc hurt too much, others will find their damages are compensed by their squishy side and lack of skills like snare, KD ... Concerning AM/shaman, some will find it's useless, others will find it's an usefull class ... And it will be the same with every classes you will be able to talk about.
Honestly, making a list of each positive and negative points of each class won't be helpful imo.

Both classes have a snare, the bw snare is far easier to use. Both have the standard M1 knockback + M3 stagger. Additionally the bw has a 3 sec. knockdown (also instant and very easy to use) and selfcleanse.
The sorc has a 3 sec. disarm, a 3 sec. range aoe silence and a tactic that gives almost every aoe ability a 100% chance on crit to knockback every target.
I don't know about the KB distance and if it's actually worthwhile for defense, as it seems that damage > everything else for most bw/sorc players. I would rather see the KB only proc every xy seconds and give a short 40% snare on the targets.

[Telen]

End game RP has better better single target, Totally wrong

While they lack 2 dots RP have a higher burst channel. A decent 2s cast with higher crit chance. and 2 instant casts one with higher crit chance. that AM dont. Also all from 100ft. They have a much better build to a burst rotation. Endgame heal debuff is reliable particularly from RoS.

Better in group setting with higher damage or better healing and ability to switch role. Depends on the group setup but better healing option in DPS spec is true due to their mechanic.
Depends on having a knight present.

Am have better solo damage over multiple targets particularly within 65ft. Yes, for PVE only.
Down to their ability to aoe debuff own dmg type from 65ft having and part of burst rotation from 65ft.

[Sulorie]

Because it reduced the base increased damage from the crit, but not the extra damage from the tactics. The bw/sorc mechanic is not increased by any tactic, so TB reduces the increased damaged completely.
Maybe i'm completely wrong, but we are obviously both making allegations here without any evidence.
So please stop using " " so excessive. It doesn't make a statement true. It just make you look very arrogant.

Sorry if it looks like arrogance, but I just know it.

Let's say a WH hits you for 1000 damage and scores a crit, then you get without any defense stats:

1000(base dmg) + 400-600(base crit dmg) + 500(crit dmg tactic) = 1900-2100 damage

50% TB reduced the damage to:
1000 + (400-600 + 500)/2 = 1450-1550 damage

Following your calculation the damage looks more like this:
1000 + (400-600)/2 + 500 = 1700-1800 damage

Don't know how obvious I have to make this.
I know for how much they hit me and it was a ~25% reduction of critical strikes with full TB.
TB was the answer to inflated crit values due to LotD weapons and endgame crit procs. It was no Sorc/BW fix, they were only hit harder because of their higher crit bonus values.

Just for the record, Sorc/BW hits for 1000 damage base and with full comb/dm and a crit it looks like this:

1000(base dmg) + 400-600(base crit dmg) + 1000(crit bonus based on comb/dm) = 2400-2600 damage

With full TB: 1000 + (400-600 + 1000)/2 = 1700-1800 damage

Crit bonus procs are not part of this calculation.

[Mez]

So did Telen win this forum battle or something, because backlash was increased about a week or so ago to 400 damage. That is 25% of my health bar on my BW or Sorc. It seems to increase from 320 to 400 the more combustion I carry. I just want to say it's too much. 50% of my health in 1.5 seconds, while getting attacked by other sources, can nearly cripple me from 100% to next to dead instantly. Very often I am taking double backlash back-to-back or twice in every 3 spells and it's not a matter of deciding to dump all of my mechanic to zero, I'm near dead and need to remove myself from combat completely. This goes against the idea the player can make conscious decisions about backlash, and as I had stated previously, it was already there. The only difference now is backlash is completley crippling. Sometimes I'll have a shaman or magus dot on me, and I'm at 40% health (638 health) and I don't even feel safe dumping it and casting 1 spell at zero combustion. I don't understand why this was changed, and why it was not added to the changelog. If it is a bug, please let me know so I can log it.

[Azarael]

A number of sources in this thread successfully demonstrated that Explosion and Backlash damage vary with the amount of mechanic that you have.

The numbers and scaling broadly follow what Telen proposed.