peterthepan3 wrote:If nothing else, it would serve as a means of encouraging people to play in guilds (as per the intent of the game), and thus teamplay would naturally evolve from that (one would hope).
Stop spreading that myth.
The "guild play" was never the intent of the game. I played from launch till ragnarok, guilds where an option, a rewarding one, but was never intended as THE way to play.
Drop in and drop out was always the wY the game was intended, as stated by the mythic devs themselves.
This entire game was based on guild RVR mate sorry to say .From the guild tactic implementation to the GUILDS holding the Keeps with their own guild flags.To see that you dont have to look far but to the skills of each classes which is buffing the group.Groups are minor pieces of the game and to set it up in the optimal way you join a guild make a plan and play according to it to win against enemy.It is heresy to say this game is made something similar to QUAKE 3 ARENA get in get some kills log out
kill Droll you Kill this Server. DROLL is Community
Hargrim wrote:Well, my comment just stated the obvious. Howeve I think I will add stats gathering to bag code, so we can have no more of this "I played 100 zones and won 1 gold bag".
If ppl would "play" the zones, I wouldn't attend to this debacel thread.
I leave my screenshot as a reminder again.
and this guy is not one of a million. drawtimers get broadcasted frequently or get inbetween when the momentum shifts.
also if the lootsystem is more reliant on the opposition (AAO, lowlevel pug warbands etc.) than no wonder we can build "New IC" out of white bags, it's a pretty mess if you are reliant on your enemy to play the game if they refuse to and just xrealm or logout. (with exceptions ofc)
Fallenkezef wrote:Here we go.
Can't have those pug peons having gear, they are only fit to give the guild WB's free kills.
I'm sorry mas'er
srsly dude, have all the gear you want. take it. it's yours.
the problem is not about pugs having gear. the problem is pugs refuse to play the game and play the system instead like mentioned drawtimers, like mentioned log next char method etc.
if playing a system is more rewarding than playing the game, why should I play?
if playing a game with effort is as rewarding as playing it without effort, why should I invest time in putting in effort?
that's the core questions beiing asked here.
not: "do pugs deserve to have gear?".
everybody can agree on "yes, they do.", I bet.
it's about the fairness in organized vs nonorganized. and making incentives to play organized.
this lootloteryrandomrollsystem + 4m:30sec mercy timers can only be a good thing for players who put in 0 effort.
If a pug player had a good run in a pug wb, give that man a gold bag.
if he put in work and commited time on leading give him platin.
but asking in /2 how long till draw? or ppl. char hopping and not playing at all can also not be in your interest.
Thanks to you... it says it all... i agree % 100 every bit of it in that
kill Droll you Kill this Server. DROLL is Community
It baffles me, that people believe that it is gear that makes or breaks the game; holds them back. You are in for a rough awakening once you pugged your way to BiS gear ~ you'll still be freenown for as long you pug about.
Take the various SC duos and trios as an example:
They carry pug SCs left, right and center - not by virtue of gear but the bare minimum of coordination and actual (= non [semi-]automatized) groupplay - and by doing so they gain BiS gear in a fraction of the time it takes Puggidy McPuggingsten... Once they acquired all their gear through SCs they form full groups, 12mans and warbands (or nest their group ~ form a pug warband around it) to continue their farm in the lakes.
Whereas Puggidy McPugginsten forces himself through a tedious grind - drowning in white bags for months - to find himself farmed in the lakes until the dreaded draw timer kicks in, with or without BiS gear, because he chooses to brainafk'ingly join pug warbands that are made up of the ever same McPugginstens.
It speaks volumes that the same very people find themselves in pug warbands - at all times refusing to form actual groups -, over the course of months (if not by now years) and still perform poorly; not making an effort whatsoever to start up some minor coordination by uttering a few words in the respective chats.
Especially the NA situation is beyond my comprehension, given the - again, ever same - (comparatively small) population things should have picked up long ago, creating a way more competitive large scale scene... even more competitive than the EU organized warband scene, all things considered.
Above rant aside:
How about introducing FFA keeps (like its been on the live servers for some time)? Once a zone opens during (EU) primetime, and a certain player treshold is met, one or both (depending on prior performance of the respective reslms) keeps are FFA; both realms gotta fight in the yard, on the walls and on the BOs to secure ownership of the keeps. Once a realm secures both keeps the zone locks as per usual.
If realm A captures a keep, the BOs are being regarded outposts for realm B; realm B can fortify the BOs (portals are slready in place, makeshift barriers/siege/NPC and we are good) and lead their campaign towards either keep. Realm A loses access to BO, but can raze fortifications and alike.
As long neiher realm owns a keep, both fight over the BOs until a certain number is owned and held for a certain amount of time, or atleast one has been fortified and turned into a basecamp to start the campaign for either keep.
Have this be a daily/weekly/montly event, or something more regular frequent.
The objectives, conditions and chaos, the greater the need for actual strategy and coordination.
Let it be a literal cakewalk mechanically if a realm (all warbands, groups and derps) organize, and a literal mechanical nightmare if they don't.
It'll play like **** for the first few weeks, but eventually people pick up on in it - consider it a city-push bootcamp experience.
It baffles me, that people believe that it is gear that makes or breaks the game; holds them back. You are in for a rough awakening once you pugged your way to BiS gear ~ you'll still be freenown for as long you pug about.
Take the various SC duos and trios as an example:
They carry pug SCs left, right and center - not by virtue of gear but the bare minimum of coordination and actual (= non [semi-]automatized) groupplay - and by doing so they gain BiS gear in a fraction of the time it takes Puggidy McPuggingsten... Once they acquired all their gear through SCs they form full groups, 12mans and warbands (or nest their group ~ form a pug warband around it) to continue their farm in the lakes.
Whereas Puggidy McPugginsten forces himself through a tedious grind - drowning in white bags for months - to find himself farmed in the lakes until the dreaded draw timer kicks in, with or without BiS gear, because he chooses to brainafk'ingly join pug warbands that are made up of the ever same McPugginstens.
It speaks volumes that the same very people find themselves in pug warbands - at all times refusing to form actual groups -, over the course of months (if not by now years) and still perform poorly; not making an effort whatsoever to start up some minor coordination by uttering a few words in the respective chats.
Especially the NA situation is beyond my comprehension, given the - again, ever same - (comparatively small) population things should have picked up long ago, creating a way more competitive large scale scene... even more competitive than the EU organized warband scene, all things considered.
Above rant aside:
How about introducing FFA keeps (like its been on the live servers for some time)? Once a zone opens during (EU) primetime, and a certain player treshold is met, one or both (depending on prior performance of the respective reslms) keeps are FFA; both realms gotta fight in the yard, on the walls and on the BOs to secure ownership of the keeps. Once a realm secures both keeps the zone locks as per usual.
If realm A captures a keep, the BOs are being regarded outposts for realm B; realm B can fortify the BOs (portals are slready in place, makeshift barriers/siege/NPC and we are good) and lead their campaign towards either keep. Realm A loses access to BO, but can raze fortifications and alike.
As long neiher realm owns a keep, both fight over the BOs until a certain number is owned and held for a certain amount of time, or atleast one has been fortified and turned into a basecamp to start the campaign for either keep.
Have this be a daily/weekly/montly event, or something more regular frequent.
The objectives, conditions and chaos, the greater the need for actual strategy and coordination.
Let it be a literal cakewalk mechanically if a realm (all warbands, groups and derps) organize, and a literal mechanical nightmare if they don't.
It'll play like **** for the first few weeks, but eventually people pick up on in it - consider it a city-push bootcamp experience.
We can change mechanics to the end of the world every 2 weeks. What are the glaring issues with current RvR / Keeps that would warrant that rework and what would be gained?
Mostly during roaming time, I prefere to lead my WB to fight against enemy WB. During this, trying to concatrate people around me to Listen and follow. It's a bit hard but still could do it. Mostly in my WB there is ~10 people who always listen and follow, that's why all others start moving.
The sad story that, after each wipe or fail keep siege, WB almost always lossing 10-15%. I believe this time xrealms join for destro(same situation on destro side). We should definately add timeout on switching sides.
For an example:
Zone timer: 140min
Timeout for switching realms, the first 70min.
Then Timeout after switch: next 70min, for all characters. This could somehow help to leave same numbers in a zone.
We can change mechanics to the end of the world every 2 weeks. What are the glaring issues with current RvR / Keeps that would warrant that rework and what would be gained?[/quote]
I in my opinion the biggest issue is the ability to see the draw timer. I think the timer itself is fine but being able to .rvr to see it seems like it encourages people to push for the first couple hours then give up at the 120 min mark OR if they show up with only like 90 minutes not really push and wait for next zone.
Again, I think having the draw timer itself is a good thing but letting everyone check up on it constantly has made people lazy in their attempts at keep sieges (at least in NA time).
Exot wrote:Mostly during roaming time, I prefere to lead my WB to fight against enemy WB. During this, trying to concatrate people around me to Listen and follow. It's a bit hard but still could do it. Mostly in my WB there is ~10 people who always listen and follow, that's why all others start moving.
The sad story that, after each wipe or fail keep siege, WB almost always lossing 10-15%. I believe this time xrealms join for destro(same situation on destro side). We should definately add timeout on switching sides.
For an example:
Zone timer: 140min
Timeout for switching realms, the first 70min.
Then Timeout after switch: next 70min, for all characters. This could somehow help to leave same numbers in a zone.
I think xrealmers are just a scapegoat we use to blame our defeats on. WBs almost always lose 10-15% because people don't like losing but that doesn't mean they instantly log into their order toons; maybe they just wanted to get contribution for the bag and that's it, they might wanna do scenarios instead, small scale or play auction house etc.
With a timer on switching sides people would create new accounts, with an IP lock people would use VPNs; that's loads of hassle and we're still not even sure if xrealming is such an issue as /advice makes it out to be. Devs probably know and they would've done something if it was problematic.
TLDR: I think xrealming problem gets blown out of proportion a lot
This RvR system with the BO's and the Keeps is the better one I have play on the private server, you can change some things step by step but currently for me it's ok.
This system provide multiple fight every where.
Objective give tactic and strategies on RvR because if you want to rank your keep, have seiges weapons for def or attack you need to control the most BO as possible.
As PuG players and Solo I play on BO and guard them, I ambush around them, I move to attack them, they are currently strategic.
All BO's for every maps are currently actives with all type of battle possible, skirmish, solo, 6 mans... Just move, there is a BO who are not zerged.
If you have AAO you can lower the enemy keep ranking if you attack their BO's, they are more strategic than some here are saying.
I really don't know about DRAW if you need to change or remove something from that...
Personaly as PuGer, solo, in open WB, I m not looking the DRAW timer and I m not just waiting on the BO the DRAW ding, for all the time I have play on this RvR system I have not see many players just waiting AFK on the BO; Some players out of the WB but most of us are moving and looking for a good battle on the BO's or on the way to a BO.
What we need is to have points when we lock a maps (T2T3T4) to count points and lock the most of the maps as possible for a final count and a victorious Realm.
If a map is Draw you have no points.
flintboth wrote:This RvR system with the BO's and the Keeps is the better one I have play on the private server, you can change some things step by step but currently for me it's ok.
This system provide multiple fight every where.
Objective give tactic and strategies on RvR because if you want to rank your keep, have seiges weapons for def or attack you need to control the most BO as possible.
As PuG players and Solo I play on BO and guard them, I ambush around them, I move to attack them, they are currently strategic.
All BO's for every maps are currently actives with all type of battle possible, skirmish, solo, 6 mans... Just move, there is a BO who are not zerged.
If you have AAO you can lower the enemy keep ranking if you attack their BO's, they are more strategic than some here are saying.
I really don't know about DRAW if you need to change or remove something from that...
What we need is to have points when we lock a maps (T2T3T4) to count points and lock the most of the maps as possible for a final count and a victorious Realm.
If a map is Draw you have no points.
Litterally everything is wrong in that description of how the lakes are at the moment. It's the exact opposite at the moment, you hold a couple of BOs for a few minutes, reach keep rank 3 and just forget about it. After that it's zerg chasing zerg back and forth between a BO and a WC, or the occasional clash somewhere else on the map which results in the slaughter of the smaller pugblob and then it's back to the BO-WC stalemate. And while these fights happen, they are ultimately void of ANY meaning, the only purpose they serve is to feed the 6-mans renown and medallions. Dunno if you have enemy installed, but we usually see 5-10 players with more kills than all the pugs in a zone combined.
And I don't know why, but the majority of players tend to camp BOs for hours on end even when it serves no purpose. Of course you are safe on there with the blob, but people need to stop expecting to get geared if they don't actually even care to play around in the lakes. And no, playing in a blob for 5 hours doesn't mean you are actually killing anything or contributing, even though it might feel like you are. Soloing>pugging.
I not agree with your description of the current RvR if we blob when we have up our keep 3 stars it's because we have a ram and now it's time to attack the keep.
We have spend enough time on the Battle Objectives and the zone map, if you want to give more importance to the BO's during the keep attack you can but the risk it's to have no end zone as we have see in the past, because the keep attack was too hard.
The most powerfull Realm have to attack if Realm players fail on the attack they have to go back on BO's and defnder have to attack, take BO, repair door if needed and attack other keep if they win on the battlefield, this is what I have see currently.
I agree to make the keep door attack imposible if you have less BO than two but you make the keep attack more hard with three BO's needed and impossible with four BO's needed.
War Camp farming was more hard with the other RvR system, I have see many time all players of one Realm locked in their War Camp by a zerg of two or three wb and their keep shuting down without defence.
Here I have not see all that warcamp farming I have see during the past, their is some warcamp ping pong or keep vs warcamp but that don't stop the battlefield game.
There are some new WB leader curently who are just runing for the battle, to the others warcamp or to the BO the most nearest of the enemy WarCamp but there is many players who leave their WB after 20 minutes and some others players who are telling them to stop that on /2 and play the RvR game and the Objectives as I have see.
There are most of the maps locked by a Realm than locked by DRAW, for what I have see during the time I have play.
About kills, medaillons, gears, bags, rr, xp... I m not looking for who have win the most of that, I m playing for the fun and the strategy, if i m interested for some pieces of gear it's because that help me to stay alive and continu to heal others players around.
As I have say above give more strategies, interest to the lock of a map and most of the players will play for those objective's.
As example give 2 points for a map T2, 3 points for a T3 map, 4 points to the T4 maps of one pair, at final the Realm who have win the most of the maps, the most of the points, is victorious with an anouncement and a tick + a bonus race for the race who have win the most of the point on his own pair.
Last edited by flintboth on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
