[DISCUSSION] RVR - likes/dislikes/possible improvement?

[th3gatekeeper]

we could also leave keeps with basic defense even if rank 0. for example, leave some siege weapon no matter what rank it is so you will allow defender to do something (especially melee) instead of afking on the front door awaiting it to be destroyed lol

Yeah Keep Defense/Offense is an entirely different beast ATM.

Its almost like a sub-set of RVR.

I would rather have them look at the MAJOR "40,000 foot view" (figure of speech) mechanics first. Such as the general flow/gameplay. How does RVR start, what are the main objectives, how does it end.

We know how it starts: Capture 2 BOs and the other zones become locked.

What are the main objectives?
- Right now its get BOs, to get Keep ranked up just a TINY bit, then zerg the keep. Then recap BOs for supplies.
THIS is the area that IMO needs improvement

How does it end?
This is also something that needs improvement. There needs to be MULTIPLE ways for it to "end".

IDEALLY #1 avenue would be a "slow and steady" eventual END. #2 Avenue would be a much faster but more difficult way to end. IDEALLY these 2 avenues would be focused on doing different things, or minimally, doing different things FIRST.

I dont have a "perfect" solution.... I think ANY system will have its "pros and cons".

Ideally, I still really like a "points" system. Where you accumulate points for things like:
- rank of your keep.
- BOs give points over time
- kills give points

So this would be avenue #1 - you focus on BOs/Kills/Supplies.

Avenue #2 would be the much shorter path to win. Something like "Kill the Keep Lord" and you get a BIG boost in points to the degree that you basically "win".

So Destro (for example) is focusing on capping BOs, turing in supplies and trying to kill Order, while Order is focused on trying to bombard the Enemy Keep for a quick win. Thus forcing Destro to play both the BOs and Keep Defense. This is also where I think a "neutral bomb" could be used as a side-objective for the other faction as an alternative "game" where you can run the Bomb to the enemy keep to damage the postern doors - which would never blow up BUT eventually allows "access" to the Keep to make attacking the Keep easier without leveling up your own Keep. This also gives melee more function on keep defense/attacks to guard those postern doors. Since now the enemy force can send a warband to bypass the outer wall. to then allow a second force to attack outer wall while under the protection of said warband. Etc.

Just spitballing ideas. So again.

1) faction is doing bomb runs, attacking the enemy keep via postern/main gates.
2) Other faction is capping BOs, turning in supplies and accumulating "points" while also being forced to play defense on the Bomb + their own Keep.

The "points" system via BOs/Supplies/Kills would be the slow/steady way to win. Killing the Lord via neutral bomb runs would be the faster/riskier way to win.

Again, just IDEAS. not a fully flushed out system....

But thats the type of gameplay RVR needs. 2 Paths to victory. More objectives in the RVR lakes that create a more dynamic gameplay approach as well as add a "finite" way to win, where if the game "turtles" it WILL end via the slow and steady route... So players know there IS a definite end that is REMOVED from "Killing the Keep Lord".

[Asherdoom]

Spoiler:

we could also leave keeps with basic defense even if rank 0. for example, leave some siege weapon no matter what rank it is so you will allow defender to do something (especially melee) instead of afking on the front door awaiting it to be destroyed lol

Yeah Keep Defense/Offense is an entirely different beast ATM.

Its almost like a sub-set of RVR.

I would rather have them look at the MAJOR "40,000 foot view" (figure of speech) mechanics first. Such as the general flow/gameplay. How does RVR start, what are the main objectives, how does it end.

We know how it starts: Capture 2 BOs and the other zones become locked.

What are the main objectives?
- Right now its get BOs, to get Keep ranked up just a TINY bit, then zerg the keep. Then recap BOs for supplies.
THIS is the area that IMO needs improvement

How does it end?
This is also something that needs improvement. There needs to be MULTIPLE ways for it to "end".

IDEALLY #1 avenue would be a "slow and steady" eventual END. #2 Avenue would be a much faster but more difficult way to end. IDEALLY these 2 avenues would be focused on doing different things, or minimally, doing different things FIRST.

I dont have a "perfect" solution.... I think ANY system will have its "pros and cons".

Ideally, I still really like a "points" system. Where you accumulate points for things like:
- rank of your keep.
- BOs give points over time
- kills give points

So this would be avenue #1 - you focus on BOs/Kills/Supplies.

Avenue #2 would be the much shorter path to win. Something like "Kill the Keep Lord" and you get a BIG boost in points to the degree that you basically "win".

So Destro (for example) is focusing on capping BOs, turing in supplies and trying to kill Order, while Order is focused on trying to bombard the Enemy Keep for a quick win. Thus forcing Destro to play both the BOs and Keep Defense. This is also where I think a "neutral bomb" could be used as a side-objective for the other faction as an alternative "game" where you can run the Bomb to the enemy keep to damage the postern doors - which would never blow up BUT eventually allows "access" to the Keep to make attacking the Keep easier without leveling up your own Keep. This also gives melee more function on keep defense/attacks to guard those postern doors. Since now the enemy force can send a warband to bypass the outer wall. to then allow a second force to attack outer wall while under the protection of said warband. Etc.

Just spitballing ideas. So again.

1) faction is doing bomb runs, attacking the enemy keep via postern/main gates.
2) Other faction is capping BOs, turning in supplies and accumulating "points" while also being forced to play defense on the Bomb + their own Keep.

The "points" system via BOs/Supplies/Kills would be the slow/steady way to win. Killing the Lord via neutral bomb runs would be the faster/riskier way to win.

Again, just IDEAS. not a fully flushed out system....

But thats the type of gameplay RVR needs. 2 Paths to victory. More objectives in the RVR lakes that create a more dynamic gameplay approach as well as add a "finite" way to win, where if the game "turtles" it WILL end via the slow and steady route... So players know there IS a definite end that is REMOVED from "Killing the Keep Lord".

[Dresden]

2) Locking the zone requirements are not fun but often frustrating

Yeah, gotta say, it can take way too long sometimes.

[ZewKrwi]

2) Locking the zone requirements are not fun but often frustrating

Yeah, gotta say, it can take way too long sometimes.

+1

We should get bags for keep, and after keep take zone lock.

From ram take to breake outer gate you just lose time, while you can get contribution elsewhere. Thats why you can see at chat take ram, and someone even spawn it but don't want to go siege, and pug wb do that.

When outer gate fall, you can kill comming to keep players, but still some times it's better to farm at wc or BO's.

When inner fall all come to get contribution from lord, ofc if you can kill lord because again if ppl gona wipe it's better to take contribution elsewhere. That's why I have seen many times more ppl at zone then at keep.

All it would be gone if we would get bags from keep. Holding BO's for hours is just boring, and many ppl just leave RvR before zone lock.

[Dresden]

2) Locking the zone requirements are not fun but often frustrating

Yeah, gotta say, it can take way too long sometimes.

+1

We should get bags for keep, and after keep take zone lock.

From ram take to breake outer gate you just lose time, while you can get contribution elsewhere. Thats why you can see at chat take ram, and someone even spawn it but don't want to go siege, and pug wb do that.

When outer gate fall, you can kill comming to keep players, but still some times it's better to farm at wc or BO's.

When inner fall all come to get contribution from lord, ofc if you can kill lord because again if ppl gona wipe it's better to take contribution elsewhere. That's why I have seen many times more ppl at zone then at keep.

All it would be gone if we would get bags from keep. Holding BO's for hours is just boring, and many ppl just leave RvR before zone lock.

Nah it's all fine as is, it just needs more efficiency.

Either that or allow another zone to be opened AFTER the keep take and BEFORE the zone lock.

THAT would be VERY exciting and might satisfy some of the pro multiple-zone peeps ie me.

I miss the unpredictability of multiple-zone, single zone + long zone-lock has ZERO juice in it to ease the grind.

Still wouldn't play anywhere else though. #FaithAndPatience

[Daknallbomb]

I had one idea that mayb can fix x Realm and create better even fights But dont know that it can be like These. I would say Double The Gold Bags But Just give loot roll to the winner side If The looser side dont has more than 40% aao over 1 hour

[Dresden]

I had one idea that mayb can fix x Realm and create better even fights But dont know that it can be like These. I would say Double The Gold Bags But Just give loot roll to the winner side If The looser side dont has more than 40% aao over 1 hour

[Daknallbomb]

Well for what rewarding ppl for Rolf stomp with 300% aoo The under Pop faction?

[Aurandilaz]

Well for what rewarding ppl for Rolf stomp with 300% aoo The under Pop faction?

explain yourself, this statement made me somewhat confused

[Daknallbomb]

I mean there is no competition to Fight with 150 ppl against 50 Enemy so Wy get a reward for IT? Its not my Philosophie But its Just a Personal opinion