Return of Reckoning

Alfinnete wrote:Simple: After logging in, you have 5 min to switch factions. After 5 min, you receive a temporary lock of 2 hours.

do you have any idea how to make it real?
maybe it's not that simple.

Except with free accounts you can just have two accounts: one for destro, one for order.

This is A stupid question as its been pointed out because it punishes those who have both order and destro on same account... and encourages just creating a seperate free account to do the exact same as above (with no lockout lal as seperate accounts) so any change would not fix this...

The problem is player mentality or sheep mentality... people go on about Xrealming (I know what way people usually mean it in, negative fairweather easymode zerging joining winning side for "loot/gains" when there is little loot to be gained lal)

I only started X realming when I run out of enemies to kill and my side as become too dominant to help balance the server / more fun... fighting against the odds is what my preference is, fighting a zone 70 vs 32 = fighting over scraps = im not needed to lead = no enjoyable fights ... or 115 vs 50... or 48 vs 14... all numbers from the last week or so.

Order use to be alot stronger/zerging throughout afternoon and in primetime too... but this last month order have been less organised and more fight avoiding / morale breaking / give up easy... I remember when they use to bunker in keeps and defend hard even if they got wiped, now i've been getting 700 Renown for keep ticks lal.

Then you also have order Zerg bomb with 2-3 wb's... vs my 12 guys or so, or Ocara's pug wb... I reorganise and help lead pugs too and after one wipe that massive zerg that was attacking reikland keep and close to locking the zone disappears... then destro goes locks zones almost pvd because order give up...

The constant theme is people giving up, lack of will to fight in a RVR game... too much easymoding from both sides... instead of playing the game purely for the PVP and at its core. Winning or losing doesn't matter... but fighting sure does and if there are no enemies then there is no fighting, so that is when I X realm and encourage my guildmates to join me to help balance the server to produce a more balanced and enjoyable / healthy server.

Because that's the only thing we can do in our power to make more fights.
I see so much whinging on both sides about zergs... and pretty much everything else... But i don't see so many people investing that negative energy into organising or leading something to create a better gameplay experience for all.

Order just need a pug leader like Ocara... who will always fight no matter what, we might not always see things the same way but I can easily respect Ocara for always trying no matter what. When Phalanx was on a break, TUP2fg and Ocara's wb was fighting 4-5 order warbands all the time, zone after zone with AAO... Fights was tough and got spoilt alot but we grew stronger and never gave up.

^ totally agree

Properly managed and incentivized xrealming is the way to fix population balance issues.
If you can get just a good or even better rewards for actively fighting on the "weaker" side people wont switch to the winning side.

I feel like all those whining about xrealming also fail to realize that population switch happens normally all the time. One side locks the zone, people get tired and log off, meanwhile other side wants revenge and stays, more people connect and now other side is winning. Its not xrealming is just people coming and leaving.

Wam creating zerg yet gloating about fighting like underdog... 5/10

Grock wrote:^ totally agree

Properly managed and incentivized xrealming is the way to fix population balance issues.
If you can get just a good or even better rewards for actively fighting on the "weaker" side people wont switch to the winning side.

I feel like all those whining about xrealming also fail to realize that population switch happens normally all the time. One side locks the zone, people get tired and log off, meanwhile other side wants revenge and stays, more people connect and now other side is winning. Its not xrealming is just people coming and leaving.

First smart post about this issue, I see there is hope for mankind.

zwerrie wrote:Wam creating zerg yet gloating about fighting like underdog... 5/10

nice bait but

Nah mate... I could do that all the time if i wanted to enforce that win at all costs playstyle (but it would be boring and make even more PVD which some people seem to enjoy but i don't) I only created a counter zerg (which was still smaller) we got halfed wipe a couple times then fully wipe order... then they disappear thats not a gloat thats a fact and I was disappointed because lack of fights, lack of defending reik keep from order = lack of fun.

The thing most people fail to understand/realise is order's playstyle / traditional tactic of balling up if they lose a couple fights (zerging) forces destro to adapt or die (and counter zerg... there might be occasions when destro starts real zerging first and force order to do the same but its usually only a counter measure)

If you can't beat them Just Zerg up... (no matter their number) order would do it to us TUP when we are just 6-12... and bring 2-3 wbs'... 48+ people vs 12... a bit excessive dont you think? but we always fought on

Order do it to phalanx...

Order do it to even our pug wb's usually lead by Ocara...

Instead of work on fighting, tactics and improving, the answer was 9 times out of ten to bring more people to a fight (and cannons)... Look what happens when order can't outnumber destro by a huge amount and the zone population is even... Its not a gloat just I can't remember the last time order locked a zone in prime time with TUP & Phalanx in zone and numbers being even. I remember multiple times when Destro have taken zones where they have lost both keeps and reset it.

Look what happens when destro get tired of such ways and counter it (like i did... I stopped us getting wiped us a 12 man vs multiple organised wb's... I reluctantly opened wb up just to fight fire with fire and for the realm / protecting pugs (i have done on one other occasion to lock KV... when similar happend 3 organised wb's blobbing up) Usually I would just work more closley with Phalanx if they was around and it was needed / called for (but we both have our own identity and look for our own fights instead of hand hold)

Your entitled to play whatever play style way you want (without exploiting) but actions always have reactions...

so in less than a hour from order being dominant almost zone locked to non existent... (they had numbers in the zone just no co operation/morale/will to fight besides 2 FG's who tried in vain (despite 50+ in zone) you would expect more resistance)

So I chose to play lower RR and geared class on the enemy side / underdog side to stimulate some fun/action... The problem is most people who Quit their own or main side... when they percieve it to be losing then swap to the other side creating a snowball effect... spoiling the balance/game and riding other people's coatails...

I don't think there is anyway to balance people who quit / give up fighting because they are losing as there is no way to police that criteria... (if you try incentive increase rewards for losers/defenders... people will exploit it by not defending and throw zones more than they already do just for roll at loot bags... if you try to encourage people to fight harder by rewarding attackers, more fairweather people will swap sides to winning side just for the loot)

In a ideal world the community would police itself better on such issues and not create snowball effect... but the world isn't ideal and a large portion of people like to take shortcuts (prime example all the people who felt the need to exploit and got banned for it on private server)

I think even if city sieges got introduced at some point... Xrealming will still be a issue(because loot and lack of realm loyalty) I think sometimes Xrealming is needed, sometimes its exaggerated, sometimes its abused... it is part of the game. Even Temporary 6 hour lock out would fix xrealming a little on accounts like mine (which do it to produce fights)... but if people really want to x realm = make one order / one destro account each.

I think more consistant / active / organised pug leaders is only way to reduce xrealming (good luck with that thankless task)... leaders both sides rally behind / loyalty / support and you will always have people who game the system no matter what.

Wam wrote: Instead of work on fighting, tactics and improving, the answer was 9 times out of ten to bring more people to a fight (and cannons)... Look what happens when order can't outnumber destro by a huge amount and the zone population is even... Its not a gloat just I can't remember the last time order locked a zone in prime time with TUP & Phalanx in zone and numbers being even. I remember multiple times when Destro have taken zones where they have lost both keeps and reset it.

Look what happens when destro get tired of such ways and counter it (like i did... I stopped us getting wiped us a 12 man vs multiple organised wb's... I reluctantly opened wb up just to fight fire with fire and for the realm / protecting pugs (i have done on one other occasion to lock KV... when similar happend 3 organised wb's blobbing up) Usually I would just work more closley with Phalanx if they was around and it was needed / called for (but we both have our own identity and look for our own fights instead of hand hold)

Its fair to say that both realms are equally filled with [a/m]utists; lack realmpride, coordination and are shite in nature as it comes to rewards and losses.

Firstly i'll agree with Wam, but want to add my two cents about the reward system:

As it is now it promotes two things - ganking and pugfarming for medals, ZvD for bags instead of ZvZ fighting - low risk, high rewards. AOO doesn't really help because nothing*400% is still nothing. So to be constructive i'd like to add a suggestion to change a medal reward system - instead of medals drop on kills add a mechanic to promote actual fighting on BO's and keeps. Each few minutes of actual fighting near an objective/keep a timer ticks and "awards" a medal to each participant, mb multiplied with AOO and total number of people fighting. All rewards are actually awarded when an objective returns to "safe" state.

Edit: To be more clear - both sides gets the reward, no matter, win or loss, with the underdog side getting more.

I agree with Wam,

Order just need a pug leader like Ocara... who will always fight no matter what, we might not always see things the same way but I can easily respect Ocara for always trying no matter what. When Phalanx was on a break, TUP2fg and Ocara's wb was fighting 4-5 order warbands all the time, zone after zone with AAO... Fights was tough and got spoilt alot but we grew stronger and never gave up.

I think more consistant / active / organised pug leaders is only way to reduce xrealming (good luck with that thankless task)... leaders both sides rally behind / loyalty / support and you will always have people who game the system no matter what.

People come to the game for a variety of reasons, but those who stay and play regular are part of an organised team of fun people who enjoy working together to improve the quality of their game-time, and play together, win or loose, but still get kills.

"the eternal traveler, constantly seeing new places and things, has quite simply, not yet found something worth keeping"

Look at EU primetime for RVR,
- Beavers/Invasion (Russian order wb)
- Octobre Route/LMN (French order wb)
- CNTK (EU order 12man/wb)

- Phalanx (EU destro wb)
- TUP (EU destro 12 man)
- Beware (German destro 12 man)
- Ocara (daily destro pug wb with voice and actual improvement over time with some increasing regular players in the "team)
- Another 12 man Russian bomb squad i forget name sorry

- you can add at least one 6 man team either side, who are probs also also running scenario's.

This accounts for 140 of the players out of T4 players online during primetime, that's 75% of players in the RVR zone most days are regulars, so if your getting wiped and having less quality fun in in un-organsied group, join any of these organised teams, just ask them, come join something worth keeping.

People come to the game for a variety of reasons, but those who stay and play regular are part of an organised team of fun people who enjoy working together to improve the quality of their game-time, and play together, win or loose, but still get kills.

The mighty forum warriors (5-9% of the server population, go to registered users and see who has a lot of posts, barely anyone, most are playing the game) I've seen them come and go every 6 months who keep revisiting this topic, they simply haven't found a team they can join yet inside their game-time, go ask people, try some out, nothing to loose.

Aussie time take away Yardy and Rumba and Syrtank and RVR is dead.

NA time take away Avo and order has no RVR wb.

This game needs to encourage and reward as Wam correctly said good, regular leaders like Hao, Wam, Ocara, (i forget Beware wb leader), Eden, Leo, Shiro, Beanie/Delsun, Gdy pug's.

The good bit is also important is as leaders who are not good simply create a high churn of players in their guild, loosing the zone is fine, but getting loads of kills from challenging PVP fights is one of the best "rush" feelings from this game.

I know too many players with either just 1 main, or lots of characters, who enjoy receiving loot and of course progressing their character, its still a character building game, but drop any contribution in any zone to join an organised team at any chance, RVR or SC's, because its also one of the best team based PVP games, and that's a higher quality experience feeling/sense of achievement reward, as Wam said from fighting as the underdog and turning the tide.

Once we have more regular leaders who do not give in on both sides with teams who stick with them because its fun to stay with your team against the odds, then x-realming is no longer an issue. Letting people play both sides then simply means there are twice the amount of teams new players can join.
I believe also more leaders need to build their teams with characters who can play on both sides, LNM switched to order side because Destro was too easy for them they wanted a challenge, these leaders, are who is balancing this game and can keep it active, fun and balanced.