Return of Reckoning

double post

Morf wrote: No its your point, you are saying just shatter it, you can cover it and recast it so shattering it isnt the answer.

Also seeing as the dodge/disrupt values have been reduced since this discussion started, disregard some of my previous points however the levels of dodge/disrupt are still worrying given the mitigation of physical damage and magic damage being there downfall.

You can't really cover it since Shatter Enchantment CD is lower than FJ. AM or BW help covering FJ? No problem, BO/Dok/BG all have a 5s CD SE (and BO/DPS Doks happen to be QUITE popular these days). Yes, SE is the answer. Engies are way easier to kill when you spam SE on them.

The levels of dodge/disrupt are LOL imho, since the engie's range is gutted big time with that turret. He disrupts you 80% of the time? Who cares, stay 60ft away from him and you will mitigate 100% of his damage since he can't even reach you. Eventually you will hit him (we are talking about 1v1 right? because that's the only situation I can imagine where someone would complain about Engies like you are).

Since its about melee engys atm . They still could slot the dwarfen armor tactic as an addition to flak jacket. .getstats tells me the 263 armot potions stack with it. Got not 40 Engy to test higher ones.

Penril wrote:

XNakaaX wrote:So for the 55% disrupt Mara got spend 20 rr points, use 4 slots of jewelery and slot a tacic and gets a zealot buff.
Engy use one turret and gets 32%+18%rr+8% jewels+x buff= 58%+X (no Weapon or cloaks counted)
So one hold the line tank and its 83%? Oo ?

So other then the 10% tactic its not the class its Itmes most other classes can also get.

The KD though... best ranged KD in the game. And yet, we have people complaining about Engi heal-kegs
Engy aoe ranged pull and turret knockdown is all aoe. Still 65feet?

And all that dodge/disrupt is useless against tanks and mdps. Have a tank Shatter Enchantment on the Engi (to remove his "OP" armor buff, which can't be covered that easily since Order doesn't have many enchantments... AM i guess? k). Have a Mara/BG armor debuff him, done.

On my engie I cover armor buff with my own Burn Salve and an extra AM Prismatic cover is great too. Your theory is sound, however. I die to this strategy often.

XNakaaX wrote:Since its about melee engys atm . They still could slot the dwarfen armor tactic as an addition to flak jacket. .getstats tells me the 263 armot potions stack with it. Got not 40 Engy to test higher ones.

My pots stack. My tikner engie is at 4300 armor with a nice 800 armor pot. If I had better tallys I could push 4400.

Ravai wrote:<discussion of Bolt of Change reliance>

This to my mind signals a greater problem. We can't have the Magus (and the Engineer) relying upon abilities which have a huge range to power all their burst. We need to look at bringing other aspects of the class in to generate burst, possibly using tactics.

You mention Flickering Red Fire. Would it not be more viable to bring FRF up a bit, if it's underperforming?

Cool changes, looking forward to what comes next. Always keeping it interesting. Thanks Az and team.

Azarael wrote:

Ravai wrote:<discussion of Bolt of Change reliance>

This to my mind signals a greater problem. We can't have the Magus (and the Engineer) relying upon abilities which have a huge range to power all their burst. We need to look at bringing other aspects of the class in to generate burst, possibly using tactics.

You mention Flickering Red Fire. Would it not be more viable to bring FRF up a bit, if it's underperforming?

It sounds like a welcome change. For a more reliable rotation than currently.

Azarael wrote:

Ravai wrote:<discussion of Bolt of Change reliance>

This to my mind signals a greater problem. We can't have the Magus (and the Engineer) relying upon abilities which have a huge range to power all their burst. We need to look at bringing other aspects of the class in to generate burst, possibly using tactics.

You mention Flickering Red Fire. Would it not be more viable to bring FRF up a bit, if it's underperforming?

I agree, the range is absolute overkill and not at all needed to make boc still a very strong skill at 150ft if it had a second skill to fill the time void when its on cd. Engi is not reliant on snipe at all to burst. (gun blast+auto+hollow points tick is easily 1.8k/2k dmg without any crits)

If you are looking at tactics then, this is the best havoc build currently.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mag ... :5100:5101:

Now if we're playing around with the idea about boosting Flickering red fire to enable rotations outside of bolt of change it needs to spike dmg somehow and hit around the 2k mark with a crit at minimum (to equal engi gunblast+autos+hollow points tactic) on unguarded (non tank) targets, fireball/doombolt hits around 2k with a crit but is 3 second cast, and engi does also if specced correctly.

You could tackle this a few ways.

- Increase the cast time to 3 seconds and alter the numbers accordingly
- or leave the cast time the same and add a "crit damage % to flickering red fire" tactic somewhere in the tree as both changer's Blessing and Fiery winds are useless. The only problem with creating an individual tactic is that you create another issue of potentially dropping damage from one of the other tactics which are pretty much mandatory. SO you could add the crit damage to surging power tactic, or even make surging power a havoc mastery skill only so it cant be paired with an aoe build. your either aoe or st.

Sorc and bw are able to burst without the enemy knowing its coming (no word of pain or chillwind before hand) via a basic doombolt/gloomburst/ID and hand of ruin combo or focused mind 2xdb gb/id. Magus can currently do this aswell with focused mind and bolt of change/mutating blue fire and indigo fire of change. So I'm not sure it would be balanced to add yet another way of doing this for magus especially as they already hold the advantage with range

- You could add a check in this instance that FRF will only recieve the bonus damage (whatever you decided) if there is a specific dot applied first or some way of the enemy knowing they are about to recieve damage.

Some ideas atleast, either way that would most certainly be weaker than a 5sec cd boc as FRF is not undefendable but atleast we wont be semi afk waiting for the next boc cd, there is no filler rotation currently

Ravai wrote:- or leave the cast time the same and add a "crit damage % to flickering red fire" tactic somewhere in the tree as both changer's Blessing and Fiery winds are useless. The only problem with creating an individual tactic is that you create another issue of potentially dropping damage from one of the other tactics which are pretty much mandatory. SO you could add the crit damage to surging power tactic, or even make surging power a havoc mastery skill only so it cant be paired with an aoe build. your either aoe or st.

Exchanging Surging Power with Changer's Blessing, and adding Flickering Red Fire to the list of its affected skills. I can't change the cast time of FRF without client access.