Pug scenario IS LIVE! [Thanks for voting!]

[adei]

Ya and this change has the potential to turn this game into all the parts that players dislike about WoW. Its the first step. I don't play that game anymore because of the direction it took. You'll gain more popularity and will likely flourish because your catering to the lowest common denominator like WoW does. Is the goal of this game to be a popularity contest? Or is the goal of this game to make a great game with high quality gameplay? RoR is not fueled by monetary interests. You would think high quality gameplay would be the priority. This act is a step away from high quality gameplay and promotes players to not interact with each other, in a game that is heavily based on group mechanics working together.

Wow is a great business model if all you want is subscribers/popularity and don't care about the quality of game-play happening in most situations. This move is a change of focus on the game and acts against its game mechanics. There will be requests in the future to change game mechanics to fit this style of play. Is this really the direction that RoR wants to go?

I think if you removed the solo que option you'll lose some players but most will choose to adapt. The game will gain a higher quality of play which can blossom into a amazing experience for all who stuck it out. Once a new perception is formed solo que won't even be talked about as a thing and will be praised that RoR got rid of it.

These super die hard solo quers follow the path of least resistance. They will only due what they have too. A lot of the problems this game ran into were from players that held this mentality. Why are we catering to them.

Slippery slope.

Spoiler:

By the way I don't think the 6v6 SC's for premades were that good of a idea. It shapes a perception that this game is solely based on 6 man competitive play. I think if you made a separate bracket for premade 12v12 it would have been better and inline with what this game has been doing throughout its history.

You are right, by implementing the option for pugs to queue for one scenario, we have practically ruined the gaming experience, let us go back to premades stomping pugs in scenarios, truly high level play for all to see!

Yeah, seriously what a ridiculous statement, not even going to try and explain what you are clearly not understanding here, so lets just leave it at that.

[Luth]

These super die hard solo quers follow the path of least resistance. They will only due what they have too. A lot of the problems this game ran into were from players that held this mentality. Why are we catering to them.

People seem to forget that pugs often have a portion of new/uninformed players and not only consist of veteran players who want to solo queue for various reasons. There is no reason to throw these players into the meat grinder. The only thing they will learn from it is that it's more safe/rewarding to zerg in RvR.

To force newbies to group up to throw them at other premades, which consist mostly of longtime players won't fix anything; at the end you maybe will have even less pops, because they won't join scenarios at all.
But i have the strong feeling that it's not mainly rare scenario pops some people are worried about.

[7rere7]

Yesterday I was in a 6 man premade playing a two hand tank. We went up against another pre pushed them back to their SC base again and again . After the SC the premade wanted me to respec and go shield even though we clearly won. I left the group and rather play solo instead even though I knew I would lose out on renown !
These premades are sickening,! Its not about having fun and friendship ,but more so a power trip they get off on!

[peterthepan3]

i honestly think it's really simple lol: if premade pops do suffer as a result of this (not sure at this stage, remains to be seen), then I think it's only fair there are greater rewards. y/n?

and way to go generalising all premades, 7rere7.

[Luth]

then I think it's only fair there are greater rewards.

Iirc Swtor handles competitive/tournament scenarios like that.
Edit: That means i think maybe it's a good idea, not go away and play swtor

[footpatrol2]

@Adel

Did I say to go back to premades stomping pugs? No I did not. I said remove the solo que option. I'm yanking the conversation all the way in the other direction. This solves a lot of problems but is a bold move.

Make it so you have to have a party of 6 to join in a SC. You will generate a lot more people trying to start a group and fill their groups. All types of quality players will be scrambling to form a 6 man group to participate in a SC. Which promotes more interaction, which promotes more friendships, which promotes a healthier overall community.

This solo que pug action isolates the community even more.

I suspect this solo que option will gain a lot of popularity because most people follow the path of least resistance in life and do the minimal amount that is required of them.

Because you will have a lot of players participating in this style of play they will ask for balance changes to fit their way of interacting in this game. Which is the least amount of thought put into what this game can actually due.

This is a group based pvp game that is heavily dependant on group based mechanics interacting with each other. There should have never been a solo que option implemented in this game. It is a design flaw that mythic allowed it. It allowed a perception of this game to flourish to the point that now we have a entire SC dedicated to it.

Most things in this game require you to be in a group to be successful. Some type of minimal thought on group composition is required. Why should SC's be different. Because it always has been that way? Not good enough.

[adei]

Make it so you have to have a party of 6 to join in a SC. You will generate a lot more people trying to start a group and fill their groups. All types of quality players will be scrambling to form a 6 man group to participate in a SC. Which promotes more interaction, which promotes more friendships, which promotes a healthier overall community.

This already exists, and has been used, it did no such thing, to my knowledge there was but a handful of guilds playing in this scenario because the others could not stand up to them, so they went back to stomping pugs. The fact you seem to ignore this shows me that you do not/have not played in this specific 6 man queue and are just hating for the sake of hating.

I suspect this solo que option will gain a lot of popularity because most people follow the path of least resistance in life and do the minimal amount that is required of them.

And why is it that least resistance is applied here and not to premades stomping puggers? Doesn't sound very hard to me, there was a 6vs6 queue and hardly any of the actualy premades used it, guilds such as CCM, Fusion, Enigma etc all used this format because what they wanted was a better fight, where as the majority of premades just want the least resistance, and that was to stomp pugs in scenarios, they have less chance to do that now.

Because you will have a lot of players participating in this style of play they will ask for balance changes to fit their way of interacting in this game. Which is the least amount of thought put into what this game can actually due.

If you think thats how balance changes work here then you are gravely mistaken, there is much testing and thought before balance changes are made.

This is a group based pvp game that is heavily dependant on group based mechanics interacting with each other. There should have never been a solo que option implemented in this game. It is a design flaw that mythic allowed it. It allowed a perception of this game to flourish to the point that now we have a entire SC dedicated to it.

The game had many design flaws, allowing solo players more opportunities? I don't see that as one, considering pugs make up the majority of the game then keeping a healthy population with them is paramount, premades can still fight other premades, premades can still fight other pugs. You just have the option as a pugger to be in an environment of equal co-ordination.

[Toonman]

@Adel
I said remove the solo que option. I'm yanking the conversation all the way in the other direction. This solves a lot of problems but is a bold move.

It wouldn't solve one single problem and the SC pop would drop exponentially. Ridiculous suggestion all around.

[Luth]

People don't group up for various reasons; it could be because the need to watch for the baby every 20 minutes, think they are not good enough, are generally shy, don't want to join a voice chat because they listen to music, etc.

Do people get an advantage in this game by joining a group?
Yes ofc.

Do we want to force our opinons on them or throw them into re-education camps?
No ofc not, as this project is not led by Mussolini.

[footpatrol2]

Make it so you have to have a party of 6 to join in a SC. You will generate a lot more people trying to start a group and fill their groups. All types of quality players will be scrambling to form a 6 man group to participate in a SC. Which promotes more interaction, which promotes more friendships, which promotes a healthier overall community.

This already exists, and has been used, it did no such thing, to my knowledge there was but a handful of guilds playing in this scenario because the others could not stand up to them, so they went back to stomping pugs. The fact you seem to ignore this shows me that you do not/have not played in this specific 6 man queue and are just hating for the sake of hating.

My suggestion has not existed on this server. RoR divided the competitive 6 man community into a separate category. I personally think that was a mistake but thats another topic. I'm suggesting that the solo que option is straight up removed from the game never to be used by anyone again. If you follow what I write (which it doesn't sound like you due) I don't think this game is balanced at the 6 man level. It is horribly inbalanced at the 6 man level. Entire classes and spec lines are not allowed to compete at this level. There is a perception within the communtiy that this should be the focus point. I don't think it should. This game is WAY more balanced at the 12 man level. I can go into detail on why I think as such but won't here to keep it short. Change your perspective to fit the balance point. I try to play this game at the 12 man level where I feel this game is more balanced. I've been doing it for years.

I suspect this solo que option will gain a lot of popularity because most people follow the path of least resistance in life and do the minimal amount that is required of them.

And why is it that least resistance is applied here and not to premades stomping puggers? Doesn't sound very hard to me, there was a 6vs6 queue and hardly any of the actualy premades used it, guilds such as CCM, Fusion, Enigma etc all used this format because what they wanted was a better fight, where as the majority of premades just want the least resistance, and that was to stomp pugs in scenarios, they have less chance to do that now.

If you understand my suggestion, there wouldn't be puggers anymore with the removal of the solo que. There would only be different quality of premade groups out there. Some completely not on comms, Some all on comms, Some running meta optimal set ups, there are many different level's of premade quality. The overall group compositions would be better in this situation.

Because you will have a lot of players participating in this style of play they will ask for balance changes to fit their way of interacting in this game. Which is the least amount of thought put into what this game can actually due.

If you think thats how balance changes work here then you are gravely mistaken, there is much testing and thought before balance changes are made.

I have hope for the dev team. I'm holding my breathe. Group think/aka propaganda is a very powerful tool in shaping perception.

This is a group based pvp game that is heavily dependant on group based mechanics interacting with each other. There should have never been a solo que option implemented in this game. It is a design flaw that mythic allowed it. It allowed a perception of this game to flourish to the point that now we have a entire SC dedicated to it.

The game had many design flaws, allowing solo players more opportunities? I don't see that as one, considering pugs make up the majority of the game then keeping a healthy population with them is paramount, premades can still fight other premades, premades can still fight other pugs. You just have the option as a pugger to be in an environment of equal co-ordination.

Difference of opinion. In a game like Wow where the game mechanics arn't so heavily based on group play I would agree with you. In a game that is THIS heavily based on inter group dependance I think the solo que option created more problems then good.