6 man meta

[peterthepan3]

No, you didn't just give your opinion, you literally said his opinion was wrong. Your second point basically concedes that his opinion is perfectly valid, that scenarios have become the focus of competitive players.

Dude you should just stop trying to attack me every chance you get. Scenarios haven't 'become' the focus of competitive players; they always were (when 6v6s were not occurring). To act as if this is a new thing that needs to be addressed as per the ridiculous suggestions made above is just ignorance. I'd have thought that given the guy keeps insisting that he has a formula to break the current meta (a meta that has been tried and tested over 5+ years) by using racial groups (?), you would take these suggestions with a grain of salt. anyway i'll refrain from posting as i've made my point re OT.

[magicthighs]

No, you didn't just give your opinion, you literally said his opinion was wrong. Your second point basically concedes that his opinion is perfectly valid, that scenarios have become the focus of competitive players.

Dude you should just stop trying to attack me every chance you get.

I'm not attacking you, I'm defending footpatrol2's statement of opinion against unwarranted criticism.

Scenarios haven't 'become' the focus of competitive players; they always were (when 6v6s were not occurring).

No, they actually weren't. At the beginning of the game scenarios weren't used that much by anyone (edit: not compared to later on in the game/here on RoR), the only thing they were really good for was VPs for zone locks. People went to locked zones for duels and 6v6. Were you even playing back then?

To act as if this is a new thing that needs to be addressed as per the ridiculous suggestions made above is just ignorance

Nobody's saying it's a new thing. It most certainly is something that needs to be addressed, though.

And what exactly is this "ridiculous suggestion"? Footpatrol2 actually said, and I quote:

I don't know what to do about this or suggest. I would hate to see SC's go away entirely. Maybe straight no reward for SC's? I don't know. Even then I'd want to que for a SC because I'd want to fight other premades. Maybe have SC's only available for a specific time to lock a zone? You'd have to have something available for the defending player. I don't know what to do.

Gosh, sure sounds to me like he admits he doesn't know what should be done about it.

I'd have thought that given the guy keeps insisting that he has a formula to break the current meta (a meta that has been tried and tested over 5+ years) by using racial groups (?), you would take these suggestions with a grain of salt.

This is what's know as poisoning the well, an ad hominem, aka a personal attack. Something you yourself just accused me of.

Oh, and those are against the ToS, by the way.

[Scrilian]

>against the ToS
Ban peterthe6man when? :^)

[Toldavf]

This threads getting a bit petty and snotty let's dial it back and stick to the matter at hand. I can honestly say anything that propergates more 6 man fights is a good thing they are some of the best time I've had in warhammer.
Not to mention they give a tank like me plenty of extra work ^^

[roadkillrobin]

This threads getting a bit petty and snotty let's dial it back and stick to the matter at hand. I can honestly say anything that propergates more 6 man fights is a good thing they are some of the best time I've had in warhammer.
Not to mention they give a tank like me plenty of extra work ^^

6 man fights is pretty much the only competative PVP in the game atm. 6man groups have all the options and acess to all rewards. 6man Scenario premades also kinda poisons scenarios. The only time you ran into premades way back was if a Zone was about to lock. 6man Scenario Premades as a regular thing didn't show up until the Emblem currency was introduced. Small scale guilds did the same thing as larger scale guilds. Defending BO's and Roaming the lakes looking for other groups to fight. If you ran into a guild wb you had to flee. If you ran into a pug wb you often took the fight. (6-12 man was considered small scale). Working for more 6man instanced pvp is imo not nescesarry. Its allready the majority of the competative scene. What imo is more needed is to bring the 6man groups into the lakes grouped up with other 6man to fuel the competative RVR.

[Jaycub]

If the devs do gear progression properly on this server instead of turning city into a multiple times a day farm fest, then organized ORvR will matter a lot more and I think you will be seeing a lot more 6 man guilds running mostly ORvR to try and turn the tide for their realm.

I would also say that being able to buy gear sets with sc currency is going to end up being cancerous and needs to be changed as well.

[roadkillrobin]

I did enjoy the revamped City Ceiges. The old ones with instanced PVE bosses were really horrible as end game climax for RVR. Lets not mention how boring the VP system in City Sieges were. The change were deffintly for the better. However to road to get there were changed to the worse. Any realm pushing the city were a win for both realms. That never made any sence to me in term of realm progression. One side completly ignoring to show up in RVR coz the reward for defending the City outweight the reward of pushing for your own City attack. This is another reason why i think people formed more scenario groups btw. Just to have something to do while waiting for the other realm to lock down zones for the city. I hope this will be adressed. I can see how this is really hard to fix tho. Coz if the rewards for defending isn't worth showing up for then noone will.
I do think the original concept of rewarding winners and punishing loosers works better in a PVP based game. The current concept seem to be more in line with rewarding winners and concelation prize for loosers. It just removes some of the effort that players have to put in. If you don't have anything to loose then you won't really put in the effort either.

[Tesq]

i like both city diege just the cross istances vp system at the start was really bad

[footpatrol2]

(This should be almost a separate thread)

Gah the gear issue.

I play for the fights. Always have. Always will. But I know it influences what people decide to put their time into. There is a lot of problems with gear being the end goal of a lot of effort in a pvp centric game in addition the RR taking a Long time to obtain. (Opinion) I personally I see this as a flaw of the game.

Here are some of the historic stuff that happens due to this system.

AFK boting in SC's for passive RR gain or getting coins to purchase gear.
Pug healers healing out of group for higher renown gain.
Completely trying to avoid a fight in a city siege to get easy access to gear.
Warcamp boting for Zone locks.
Cross-realming to the winning side.

This is just off the top of my head there are lots more I'm not listing. Human beings are smart and will find a way to bypass things to the path of least resistance. By having long time limits to obtain this stuff further encourages the above behavior.

Again I don't know what to do but these are some of the issue's with the Renown Rank taking a LONG time to achieve and endgame gear being the result of a very LONG process to get.

(Opinion)
I'm not saying the carrot shouldn't exist but it should be relatively easy to acquire to avoid this type of behavior.

In my opinion, the focus should be the fights/bragging rights and not gear/renown rank gain.

After you get all your gear/renown rank and that was your only goal, what are you left with? The fights and bragging rights...

I think a system like Monthly Killboards could work like it is done in eve online. Some that is based on bragging rights and not based on gear or renown rank. I know this is somewhat a fundamental change. The old system I felt was horrible. I don't know whats going to happen moving forward. I didn't really care about gear but I'd see city fights/lakes slowly die due to more and more people doing what I listed above.

To be honest its one of the reasons why I stopped playing the game near its death. It was because I would spend a lot of time trying to get into a fight that had substance and it was becoming harder and harder to. It was also due to the gear divide being too big. I had multple classes at 40 since my focus was running premades I'd fill the role as needed. So I didn't focus in on one class. The only people that were open to my idea's were also new players which also had terrible gear. We were able to beat premades not in sov gear or RR100. Once all the premades were in sov/RR100 and coordination/organization were equal Gear became a HUGE issue.

In a pvp centric game the group with the better organization/coordination should trump everything. The sov gear allowed for the opposing group to mitigate their mistakes more. We couldn't make any mistakes what so ever or we would be crushed. In my groups we had players in conq and greens beating invader level premades. You couldn't do that against sov groups. High organization/coordination can only fix so much. We were able to beat the invader premades because we were better organized and had more coordination.

Which is why I harp on gear sometimes.

I was also on some weird crusade to find balance also.

[roadkillrobin]

Cosmetic gear
Titles
Cosmetic Mounts
Alternative Animations
Alternative Spell FX
Pet skins

Are also some stuff that can be used as rewards for "winning"
Both Guild Wars 2 and City of Heros/Vilians have done this sucessfully in the past.