Return of Reckoning

2-H tanks get around 10% more dps than SnB for comparable stats. SnB tanks receive about 10% less damage than 2H tank. It is a fair exchange.

Any other difference comes down to tactic choice and a couple abilities exclusive to each build. It's hard to see how the tactics and abilities exclusive to SnB tanks are so much better than the tactics and abilities exclusive to 2-handers that it requires the builds to be rebalanced.

HtL is a non-factor. If you think HtL makes SnB tanks better than 2H, you need to spend less time in keep doorways and learn how to play a tank.

Maybe in T4 on this server the meta wont be 2mdps groups in scenarios and HtL might be useful outside of ORvR

Also telling people to l2p and looking down on people that only do ORvR is pretty low, I thought you where better than that :^)

Jaycub wrote:Maybe in T4 on this server the meta wont be 2mdps groups in scenarios and HtL might be useful outside of ORvR

Also telling people to l2p and looking down on people that only do ORvR is pretty low, I thought you where better than that :^)

There was a lot more to RVR than keep takes.

This was my SM at rr83-84. This was in the era before the bolster to 46. You can see that I'm in def sov and SnB. I ran a Vaul/Hoeth build, primarily for the knockdown.
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... th_003.jpg

I did not spec like this so I could stand in tank walls and passively wait for the fight to come to me. I specced this way so that I could play very aggressively. I could wade into any fight, with or without healing, and focus on controlling the fight, pushing the enemy tanks around, shutting down their main dps, and setting up kills for the Order dps. I was very good at doing this. I could pull apart premades and have them overrun by pugs when the pugs had only a small numerical advantage. And I didn't have to be in a group to do it.

I can assure you that HtL played no part in that, and neither did tank walls nor keep defences. When I played a tank, my job was to make things happen, not wait for them to happen.

HtL is on demand 45% mitigation for ranged damage, and 15% for those behind you that also stacks. You don't have to use it, but it's there. A core ability that requires no investment past using a shield.

Maybe in your case it never played a large role, but you can't say it wasn't on your bar or never used... or at least I highly doubt that. No matter how you try to spin it HtL is a real tangible advantage that s/b tanks have access to that 2H do not, and 2H receives no skill like it in turn (A core ability that is built around 2H that all tanks share).

Jaycub wrote:HtL is on demand 45% mitigation for ranged damage, and 15% for those behind you that also stacks. You don't have to use it, but it's there. A core ability that requires no investment past using a shield.

Maybe in your case it never played a large role, but you can't say it wasn't on your bar or never used... or at least I highly doubt that. No matter how you try to spin it HtL is a real tangible advantage that s/b tanks have access to that 2H do not, and 2H receives no skill like it in turn (A core ability that is built around 2H that all tanks share).

It did get occasional use, but very rarely, and in situations where it didn't make much difference (mainly spawncamping). You can see it on the bottom row, just before the banners and amongst the abilities for which I never specifically bound a hotkey.
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... th_002.jpg

HTL is pretty much only used for either defending the attackes of a keep door or defending the Defenders inside. Out in the open it really does't do very much as you have vournable flanks and can't turtle. like you can in close quaters. You have to know how to play aggresivly. And HTL does nothing in that situation. You use a sheild to block guard dmg , block CC, and make sure healers don't need to focus heal you. The moment you drop the sheild you gonna be focused prob 10 times more and you might be a burden for the healers more then the supprot class you need to be. Your survival pretty much skyrockets just by equiping a sheild, coz people don't target you.

Annaise16 wrote:2-H tanks get around 10% more dps than SnB for comparable stats. SnB tanks receive about 10% less damage than 2H tank. It is a fair exchange.

Any other difference comes down to tactic choice and a couple abilities exclusive to each build. It's hard to see how the tactics and abilities exclusive to SnB tanks are so much better than the tactics and abilities exclusive to 2-handers that it requires the builds to be rebalanced.

HtL is a non-factor. If you think HtL makes SnB tanks better than 2H, you need to spend less time in keep doorways and learn how to play a tank.

maybe you should cross refrence before and stuff before you post sillyness like this

First and formorst yeah HTL matters, if you dont think its a good and useful ability then you obviously dont know how to use it properly


secondly 10% block and 68% parry is a LOT MORE thank just a 10% defense increase over suppression + 18 parry from renown

furthermore block can stop everything parry can only prevent melee dmg

next look at classes like BG and BO, neither of these classes have no tactic designed for just 2h or other classes like kotbs

and then your going to say that oppression blows and stuff is on par with tactics like mixed defenses or destined for victory

It's all about risk v reward. At the moment the extra risk of running a 2hander build is not justified by the minor rewards offered by these specs.

There needs to be better reasons to use a 2hander build. This could be either to make the tank become pure dps - forsaking their standard "tank" role and abilities (like a healer respecing dps). Or putting on a 2hander should give access to more offensive or specialist abilities not available when using SnB. Currently the majority of the best offensive tactics and skills are available when using SnB - so there is no risk associated with using them.

I guess something that hasn't been talked about yet but could be another option is this:

Are most SnB tanks considered to be OP at all?

If yes, then would taking some key skills and changing them to GW access only cause a shift in both aspects of the Tank classes to meet a middle ground?

Things like THC on BO becoming GW only so SnB can't use it, Gork Smash! only affecting GW users, changing one of the Boss tree tactics to affects Da Big Un'(the only GW required skill for BO yet has no tactics for it).

Dreadspectre wrote:I guess something that hasn't been talked about yet but could be another option is this:

Are most SnB tanks considered to be OP at all?

If yes, then would taking some key skills and changing them to GW access only cause a shift in both aspects of the Tank classes to meet a middle ground?

Things like THC on BO becoming GW only so SnB can't use it, Gork Smash! only affecting GW users, changing one of the Boss tree tactics to affects Da Big Un'(the only GW required skill for BO yet has no tactics for it).

I think it's been mentioned a bit. SnB tanks aren't OP per se, but they typically have unrestricted access to the best tactics, even those in the 2h trees, or have exclusive access to certain abilities or tactics that are overwhelmingly useful. For example: SnB Chosen gets Destined for Victory, which is just plain better than anything a 2h Chosen can get. SnB can also get Crippling Strikes, even if they aren't very efficient at applying it.

Similarly, SnB Black Guard gets an AoE Snare and the longest KD in the game, plus access to the super-punt. 2h BG does not get snare or KD (though they can super punt) and in return, they get Crimson Death.

One solution is just shuffling around tactics so SnB builds can't get all the goodies. Stuff like moving Crippling Strikes up further into the Dread tree, so it's effectively a 2h only tactic; similarly, mirror that with Encouraged Aim, so it becomes a 2h-only tool for KotBS.

Other solution would be opening up certain tactics and abilities to both 2h and SnB: make Destined for Victory proc off parry if you're wielding a 2her, or make BG KD require either block or parry. Problem here is that it might erode the distinctiveness between specs/buff certain classes too much.