[WITCH ELF] amelioration

[Penril]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

I agree on 1 and 3. 1 shouldn't cause any problems, but i can see 3 being objected by some people though.

[Jaycub]

2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused

Can you expand on the possible abuse that can come from a reduced CD stealth?

[Penril]

@Atropik: You can omnislash all you want in here. But you guys should start practicing for the Balance discussion forums, where it won't be allowed.

@Bretin: I spec'd OYK on live because it was (for me) way more fun than any other WE spec. But i admit Witchbrew is stronger.

[Atropik]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

1. Not necessary.
2. No way.
3. Good idea.

[Tklees]

2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused

Can you expand on the possible abuse that can come from a reduced CD stealth?

its mainly just a feeling I have, we will see a lot of WH/WE restealthing in small scale fights with the shorter CD and it could be extremely powerful on that small of a scale. But the game is not balanced around that small of a scale anyway so I guess it wouldn't really matter but like i said. Its just a feeling I have.

edit: i know why i had the feeling see below.

[Nemoel]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

I agree on 1 and 2

[dirnsterer]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

Swappable in stealth sounds like a nice quality of life improvement. Not too sure about stealth but might be worth of a test run? And number 3 I would be all for, makes it a tactical choice rather than just a hack buff just because.

Edit: Good about 2 would be that you could use it more in midst of combat to get the opener buff for yourself more often. But do not know if it should be more of a "You have to know when to stealth" or "Stealth to get this buff, pew pew pew" of an ability.

[Tklees]

@Nemoel and Atropik: please give a reason behind it when you are opposing one of the ideas. An example would be:

I do not think the cool down needs to be reduced due to it being a part of the "burst" that comes up for WH/WE every minute and I see that it could be abused in a way that AP costs would need to be looked at due to high uptime, 10 seconds of every 30 (33%) at the high end potential of the buff out of stealth that reduces AP costs by 50%

[Bretin]

Delayed and spreaded over 1 minute, "you know how burst is determined right? high dmg in a short time period - in war 1-3 s" right?

you can read and understand tooltips right? it lasts for 1 minute but to spend 6 stacks you need 3 seconds. fits into our description of "burst", huh?

No, only my senses, and they told me "Go risky, go crit 1200 AW to 900, you the WE"!

so you're claiming bruteforce makes up for 33,3% dmg?

And here comes the legendary WE burst advantage.

And here comes the legendary l2p WE advantage

My senses told me, shebali would made much more Damage Per 1-3 Seconds using AW instead of dot.

wow, read my post again ... i said it DOESN'T(!) fit into the cool kids shebali spec. that again means he was not using it.

[Nemoel]

@Nemoel and Atropik: please give a reason behind it when you are opposing one of the ideas. An example would be:

I do not think the cool down needs to be reduced due to it being a part of the "burst" that comes up for WH/WE every minute and I see that it could be abused in a way that AP costs would need to be looked at due to high uptime, 10 seconds of every 30 (33%) at the high end potential of the buff out of stealth that reduces AP costs by 50%

sorry i was on my mobile phone when i wrote my suggestions.^^


1. I like the idea about switching bullets/poison within stealth. I think here the most people will agree.

2. WE/WH have a great burst because they are the weakest mdps class in the game. Some tanks do not even like to guard WE/WH ^^ (even they use one of the best detaunts in the game). To get the full burst you urgently need the opener and stealth, wich is only available every 30 secs after stealth and addidional you can get easily knocked out of stealth. This is why people prefer tankier mdps classes for groups with good dps. Other classes even do not need an opener to get their full dps. Like I said before: having your full dps only every 30 secs (if you have luck and not get knocked out of stealth), while other classes have their rota ready again in much shorter time is one of the reasons why i suggest do have a shorter cd for stealth. (15 sec after get out from stealth or a direct cooldown as soon as you become invicible)



3.
I do not like the idea removing the conditional from dagger-throw with FP.
Though in its current form Dagger-Throw is useless because every good enemy use sideward steps, sometimes the snaredebuff appears but in most cases not. Having a snare ready only every 50 secs and sacrifice an important damagebuff is not much better than before in my opinion. I would suggest a +25% run speed for flee footed/sigill of sigmar or a snare on all openers instead.
On paper stealth as a gap closer is a nice idea, but in group the enemy rdps and healers flee as soon they see your guardtank running next to you.
Solo they abuse the minimap bug or see you go in disguise then they run away too. Its hard to close up to your groupmates in sc which have charge and its impossible to close up to fleeing enemies.
In soloplay as soon as the enemy jumps magically out of meleerange, you need to wait 30 more secs for the next stealth to be ready. This means death for the WE/WH. Even if youre running away, waiting for the next stealth, the most rdps are following you within 100ft and kite you down. Maybe this gets better with Agile Escape/Declare Anathema in T4.