Return of Reckoning

no idea why you combine bloodi's post with mine but actually you should fix your quoting skills and make sure you refer to the right guy

Bretin wrote:rdps can't do/have that? and i don't see how a melee in open world can detaunt 20 free casting rdps when he has to deal with the frontline of the enemy realm. he gets pressured by rdps while not being able to pressure back. again: high risk = high reward

You are the one who is claiming that everything is free kills for a sorc/Bw, how is free when being healed, guarded or using a detaunt makes the Bw/sorc unable to kill you and has to start the setup again to which you can simply do the same counter?

And we are now talking of a situation of 1 guy vs 20 free casting rdps?

Tklees wrote:see above post. 1.4 was the end of any ranged competing for spots in 6v6 groups and that was due to TB. And yes a WH can kill a squish sorc in 3 GCDs but the sorc can kill a target in 1-2 seconds with their full rotation, its called front end burst and backloaded damage. ?

in 1-2 seconds? From where the hell did you ever get this? This is completely impossible. The full rotation needs a minimum of 5 seconds, because thats the time Boiling Blood and Word of Pain need to explode, seriously, what the ****.

Tklees wrote:These are the fundamentals of those two classes. If you are referring to a more group based Scenario a WH should not be killing anything that is healed in "3 seconds", based off your 6 seconds to kill twice post. Nor should a sorc be killing cleansed/healed targets in 1-2 seconds.
This leads me to believe you are suggesting balance around 1v1 is this the case?

I am always talking about a group based scenario, melees on you will burst you down twice on 6 seconds, 2 bws/sorc will never do so, much less becase your imaginary made up situation where somehow they are able to cast 6 spells every gcd doesnt even exist.

This leads me to believe you never touched a sorc/bw and are purely talking about hearsay.

bloodi, those 1-2 secs TK is talking about are the last ones in the rotation where all your damage hits around the same time (Doombolt or AB/Gloomburst/Impending Doom or HoR + CW tick + WoP). This is what he calls backloaded damage.

While the rotation lasts 5 secs, the fundamental thing about those classes is: do as much damage as possible in a short time stamp (1-2 secs, as mentioned).

Anyway, i think this thread is being derailed haha. I think the original idea was: Does the BW/Sorc mechanic need an adjustment? I would like to know what you and Bretin think and, if possible, hear your suggestions.

bloodi wrote:You are the one who is claiming that everything is free kills for a sorc/Bw, how is free when being healed, guarded or using a detaunt makes the Bw/sorc unable to kill you and has to start the setup again to which you can simply do the same counter?

you are a legend and yet you don't know it
read my post again and try to understand it.

did you just ask about 1 dps e.g. sorc/bw should be able to kill a mdps through guard and heal all alone? guess no class got that prerogative.

the last part of your post makes no sense tho.

to end this:
let's take our favorite environment a 6vs6 and combine 3 rdps, 1 tank and 2 heals and they can for sure compete with a 2/2/2 melee setup if we don't see TB. but since your group experience = 0, you surely can't judge this. that's also where your PoV comes from - a solo queing BW.

have a nice evening

Penril wrote:bloodi, those 1-2 secs TK is talking about are the last ones in the rotation where all your damage hits around the same time (Doombolt or AB/Gloomburst/Impending Doom or HoR + CW tick + WoP). This is what he calls backloaded damage.

While the rotation lasts 5 secs, the fundamental thing about those classes is: do as much damage as possible in a short time stamp (1-2 secs, as mentioned).

Anyway, i think this thread is being derailed haha. I think the original idea was: Does the BW/Sorc mechanic need an adjustment? I would like to know what you and Bretin think and, if possible, hear your suggestions.

But that is not true, the ttk is on 6 seconds because if you act before the burst window comes in, cleansing, detaunting, outranging, ccing etc the burst will never come.

So the 1-2 secs ttk is not existant, it never happens.


And do i think the mechanic needs an adjustment? Yeah sure, i wouldnt mind having backslash entirely reworked, something to make us have to think about being at 100 or not.

Do i think that crit and crit damage needs a rework? Absolutely not, because if you do so you will have to rework the class completely from the ground up, base damage and scaling, ratios, everything would have to be changed, the only way they are killing people now on a 6vs6 scenario is a specific setup, with a specific rotation, that is easily counterable and you want it nerfed? Are you serious?

That is what pisses me off, people seemingly call for a blanket nerf and let others work the details, well the details are the complete **** class if you nerf crit and crit damage, they live off it.

Bretin wrote:you are a legend and yet you don't know it
read my post again and try to understand it.

For what? You will just change subject again, is what you do every time, just like you did now.

You start saying that everything to a BW is free kills and when asked how somehow you tell me that i am the soloqueing Bw, i dont have time to lose with you, all you will do is dodge whatever contradicts you and use another fallacy to make the others look below you, never adress an argument, always talk down on the person.

Seems i agree with you bloodi. I think the +crit/+crit damage on BW/Sorc is fine, but there needs to be a bigger drawback when they stay at 100. Backlash (imho) needs to be reworked in a way that they HAVE to drop their mechanic under certain situations. The problem is defining what that drawback should be.

Maybe reduce the range on their skills by a certain amount the more Combustion/Dark Magic they have? This way, they can choose to stay at 100 (but at a really high risk since they have to get closer to their targets) or drop their mechanic every once in a while so they can stay at a safer range.

It wouldn't make any difference for Bomb BW/Sorcs, i guess... but it wouldn't be a buff either (backlash damage is ridiculous anyway).

I don't know, i'm just thowing out some ideas.

what if it worked like sl/ch enrage the higher your resource the more dmg you will take form attacks?

TenTonHammer wrote:what if it worked like sl/ch enrage the higher your resource the more dmg you will take form attacks?

This is what I was thinking. You want more damage, you take more damage.

I would much rather see a dot debuff on whoever is above x in the mechanic. Right now is a stupid spike where sometimes i can still free cast even at 100 without healers and others using ignite/chillwind + any other bullshit will remove my last 1k of hp.

So something like if you are above x you eat y per second and it scales.

However, meltdown and Dhar wind will need some look at if that happens.

ThePollie wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:

Sorry to break it to you but right now, with higher backslash chance the higher you are on the mechanic, thats exactly what happens, you eat more damage being at full mechanic than at half, its very simple math.

Greetings!

Genisaurus wrote:
I believe the common reasoning is that Mythic implemented Trivial Blows purely as a counter to SO/BW +crit damage% values, which began to scale extremely high with their magic crit% chance available between their mechanic, Sov, and KotBS synergy.

Its was implemented(TB) with release 90-100rr damage sets and their second proc(+critical chance and + critical power in %).It was counter for all damagers,who used dd higth lvl sets, not only for bw/sorcs or mtrains.So if not release it on this server, why your want nerf them?They are weaker than mtrains(and you know about that), but deficiently?For whiners, who want nerf all , by whom they never played, but can kill them?
"A lot of people whining on this, this and this":
1.90% of this peoples in different nerf topics- the same peoples, who move from one topic to other and just whining.Someone of them write from differenet accounts, because its free, and a lot of them dont conceal that.
2.Part of them-new players.They dont know how subject of their whining can be countred.(How it can be look at bloodi's post, its need some habits, but its not too hard).
3.Part of them-peoples,just want nerf all disagreeable.
And so my main is zealot and marauder(but have twin sorc), but i dont see imbalance things in bw/sorcs meckanic.
Sorry for my "free" eng.I dont speak very well,so if i offended-i dont want that.