Return of Reckoning

Vigfuss wrote:The only solution I could think of is something like removing life taps and replacing them with a direct heal on melee attack that scales with willpower. But I'd rather not see it changed.

You mean, like its right now already?

Did you read what Sigmar radiance does? Its already a heal + lifetap. Still sucks.

Azaraael wrote:The original concept of WP is a clear guideline of where to go - a resource pool which is built by attacking and reduced by healing. If the attack/heal transition or vice versa is too risky or too slow, then by all means, deal with that..

So the aim is to make a WP hitting people with Sigmar radiance at least equal with a salvation WP spamming Pious Restoration + Touch of the divine?

Because if so, making Sigmar radiance heal for 600+ on hit and call it a day for a while,the % of damage can make up for pious restoration, lets see how that behaves,having to be in melee to do it is already a problem enough.

After all, i dont think being unable to cleanse the group, be in way more danger and so on are downsides that make up for the damage you will dish out.

With that and some tools like the ranged aoe lifetap and something to get sustain out of damage, it would be in a much better position than it is now. Add something like Crippling STrikes and we have a good package.

bloodi wrote:

Vigfuss wrote:The only solution I could think of is something like removing life taps and replacing them with a direct heal on melee attack that scales with willpower. But I'd rather not see it changed.

You mean, like its right now already?

Right now it is not a direct heal, it's a life tap, that means tactics like divine fury will not reduce healing output, but will actually allow you to heal for more.

Changing it to a direct heal that does not deal damage, changes it so healing output has no connection with damage dealt. Then if your opponent is guarded or has detaunted you, you can still heal for a good amount, and you can stack defensive stats, and still use your other heals in a similar way as a back line warrior priest does. With some defensive stats you could wade in and do your thing a bit more effectively.

I'm not really wanting this change, but I think it's something that could work.

Vigfuss wrote:Right now it is not a direct heal, it's a life tap, that means tactics like divine fury will not reduce healing output, but will actually allow you to heal for more.

Changing it to a direct heal that does not deal damage, changes it so healing output has no connection with damage dealt. Then if your opponent is guarded or has detaunted you, you can still heal for a good amount, and you can stack defensive stats, and still use your other heals in a similar way as a back line warrior priest does. With some defensive stats you could wade in and do your thing a bit more effectively.

I'm not really wanting this change, but I think it's something that could work.

i will say it again, read what it does, it already does what you are asking for.

ITs already a flat heal + lifetap. The problem is the flat heal is really low.

bloodi wrote:

Vigfuss wrote:Right now it is not a direct heal, it's a life tap, that means tactics like divine fury will not reduce healing output, but will actually allow you to heal for more.

Changing it to a direct heal that does not deal damage, changes it so healing output has no connection with damage dealt. Then if your opponent is guarded or has detaunted you, you can still heal for a good amount, and you can stack defensive stats, and still use your other heals in a similar way as a back line warrior priest does. With some defensive stats you could wade in and do your thing a bit more effectively.

I'm not really wanting this change, but I think it's something that could work.

i will say it again, read what it does, it already does what you are asking for.

ITs already a flat heal + lifetap. The problem is the flat heal is really low.

life tap deals damage and scales with damage dealt, if you can't see the difference i can't help you.

Vigfuss wrote:life tap deals damage and scales with damage dealt, if you can't see the difference i can't help you.

Jesus **** Christ in a Turbo Monocycle.

Sigmar Radiance Tooltip wrote:You smash into your enemy, dealing 155 damage to them. The power of Sigmar erupts from your weapon healing any of your groupmates within 100 feet for 232 health ((AS IN FLAT HEALING AMOUNT) plus 50% of your damage (THIS IS THE LIFETAP)

If you cant even read what the god damn skill does, please dont post.

Sanctified, resident grace Warrior Priest here. I feel I have to submit my findings and experiences of playing the unique specilization.
It is a complete brawling spec, with its heals being MASSIVE if the fight is continuous and in close quarters. But, unfortunately for me, that is not the game we play. Constant sieges and BO holdouts mean that melee is often shortlived and quick, with it being the final stage in a battle. One side downs a few enemies and snowballs to a victory. In this I excel, with Sigmars Radiance being a 500+ heal for my entire group every second I use it, which is every second. With sigmars shield and divine assault also being used, my heals are good in a straight battle. But this does not warrant a healing spot on the warband. Due to me not being able to close with the enemy alongside the other melee DPS I am pretty much useless in a siege situation, just like any other melee DPS. But I do not deserve to take a DPS spot either, because my damage is negligible compared to any other melee or ranged DPS, I am much less valuable than them in the damage area.

These are my personal opinion on the changes the melee WP must undergo. Our heals are fine, grace WP must remain a brawl healer, making its party much, much harder to kill in a close quarters fight. The only changes I'd apply to them would be the removing of the required tactic for Sigmars Radiance, due to it being a waste of the GCD without it and SMALL buff for sigmars shield, maybe up the healing from 130 to 160 and MAYBE reduce the fury cost. Our damage is where we need help. We will always be put into a dps slot, due to our heals not being constant and always situational. This means we must be able to bring the minimum requirement of DPS for that party to effectively kill something. Nothing too big, only something to bring us to the table, to be competitive. Buff it too much and other melee DPS will be just WPs without heals. We must always be less DPS than other DPS classes, due to us having the bonus of heals. Maybe a transfer of normal damage to Spiritual for some skills, maybe something else, I'm not sure. Just something to put us on the board, even if it is at the bottom.

My final opinion is on gap closing. Right now a good player on a grace WP can solo any melee class aside from DoK, due to our power spike the second anyone gets close enough. I feel as though the counter of WPs must be honored. If I get kited, I can't heal and I die. Without that I would be able to kill any class that could not heal itself. Take that away and WPs would get incredibly overpowered in the 1v1 department. Not important in a Realm vs Realm game I know, but for the sake balance, WPs must have a weakness.

bloodi wrote:

Vigfuss wrote:life tap deals damage and scales with damage dealt, if you can't see the difference i can't help you.

Jesus **** Christ in a Turbo Monocycle.

Sigmar Radiance Tooltip wrote:You smash into your enemy, dealing 155 damage to them. The power of Sigmar erupts from your weapon healing any of your groupmates within 100 feet for 232 health ((AS IN FLAT HEALING AMOUNT) plus 50% of your damage (THIS IS THE LIFETAP)

If you cant even read what the god damn skill does, please dont post.

I see what you're saying, but my suggestion was to change the whole mechanic, and you are picking out one thing and trying to prove my whole suggestion false without considering what I actually suggested. IMO, Leaving the damage alone, and buffing the healing output would be a mistake. Also, the flat healing amount of the skill does not scale with anything afaik.

Azarael wrote: 2) is an attempt to nerf Salvation WP. If you start bringing Salvation WP into this, all you will have are Salvation players seeing a threat and shouting you down. I don't like group cleanse at all, but far more people care about preserving something that's strong than trying to keep something that sucks sucky.

I believe it is a necessary nerf ye to make other healers in demand. Some would say it is unnecessary.

Azarael wrote: 3) is suicide. I'm sorry, but it is. If you do not do anything about the requirement frontline WP has on Guard, you can make all the other changes you want and you will accomplish crap all, because frontliners will still die.

Front line is front line (requires guard) melee healers v2 can't have it all or you've created the most broken class WAR/ROR has ever seen.

Azarael wrote: Seriously, just go and try it. I really wonder how many of you can seriously say that you've tried running frontline WP without Guard against any team not full of hare-brained people and can honestly say you think that it's anything but woefully underpowered. It's actually embarrassing how much more easy to play (and much more powerful) Salvation WP is.

I've played melee healer in T4 quite a bit (not as much as back line cleanser though for obvious reasons)

Azarael wrote: 4) It's already been commented on why Sigmar's Grace is trash - it gets shattered first and you'd better believe it's going to be shattered often as well. Buffhead makes it obvious when it's present so it's not staying on for more than 2 seconds. If you enjoy applying a stationary 2s cast every 7 seconds that's cool, but I don't. And it doesn't matter if it's not immediately shattered from everyone on the team - as long as a train can shatter it from the target they're attacking, that Wounds buff is USELESS.

A bit suprised all think everything is shattered 100% wo costing a gcd and how it won't soak damage especially on those out of melee range. How having higher max hp won't matter in RvR when a stealthy drops etc well well

bloodi wrote:

Vigfuss wrote:
ITs already a flat heal + lifetap. The problem is the flat heal is really low.

so let the flat heal scale with willpower. i still like that idea ^^

Vigfuss wrote: I see what you're saying,

Oh really? Because i am pretty sure its the same thing i said before, 3 times:

bloodi wrote:Did you read what Sigmar radiance does? Its already a heal + lifetap. Still sucks.

And the reply was:

Vigfuss wrote:Right now it is not a direct heal, it's a life tap

And again:

bloodi wrote:i will say it again, read what it does, it already does what you are asking for.
ITs already a flat heal + lifetap. The problem is the flat heal is really low.

Which to somehow you reply

Vigfuss wrote:life tap deals damage and scales with damage dealt, if you can't see the difference i can't help you.

Vigfuss wrote:but my suggestion was to change the whole mechanic, and you are picking out one thing and trying to prove my whole suggestion false without considering what I actually suggested. I.

No, its not me picking you out, its you being unable to read, i am tired of people claiming they have been wronged, you tried to start **** and it blew up on your face, next time, read.

Tiggo wrote:

bloodi wrote:
ITs already a flat heal + lifetap. The problem is the flat heal is really low.

so let the flat heal scale with willpower. i still like that idea ^^

Except melee wps dont stack willpower at all? It needs to be a flat healing amount with the lifetap making up for the scaling lost.