Return of Reckoning

Its 2466 healing for a grp over 10 secs

fishbar wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 1:44 pm Just throwing in support for IB's to get Grumble An' Mutter back. Things that bring personality to classes are really important, GnM is missed.

Tanks need utility for the party, not healing for themselves (the only option you suggest is healing for OF/DP as well, because it would also have to apply to BG, but that could upset the solo/duo roam environment).
IB currently has a great AA damage skill for the party, and BG FTWK (useless except for zerg playstyle).

Alubert wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 3:00 pm

fishbar wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 1:44 pm Just throwing in support for IB's to get Grumble An' Mutter back. Things that bring personality to classes are really important, GnM is missed.

Tanks need utility for the party, not healing for themselves (the only option you suggest is healing for OF/DP as well, because it would also have to apply to BG, but that could upset the solo/duo roam environment).
IB currently has a great AA damage skill for the party, and BG FTWK (useless except for zerg playstyle).

"great AA damage skill for the party". I used it only few times when I had chance to run with other 2h tank, and 2 melee DPS. Going for AA you give up everything else. It is useless in warband play, It is useless for solo and for duo, It´s useless with ranged dps party. Its usefull with 2xmelee dps + 1x2h tank combo. My damage with this build was so low (850-900 buffed strenght) that I rather run with SnB with this build. Your own armor debuff is low, Your damage outpoot is low, you have no on demand KD, you have no 10%dmg 5% parry tactic, you have no channel that is actualy your highest dps abbility to deal meaningfull asist damage.

While IB/BG has to play on piano, switch oathfriend and manage grudge, there is SM that debuff and buff at the same time while hit with proc or Knight that just walk in and debuff str, toughnes and/or resist passively and cannot be blocked or parry like all IB debuffs/buffs need to actualy HIT target. If IBs/BGs attacks are defended, there are no buffs for oathfriend and ST debuffs.

I´m not advocating GnM to come back, but both IB/BG classes need to be redesigned and put in line with rest of tank pack.

Wdova wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:27 pm My damage with this build was so low (850-900 buffed strenght) that I rather run with SnB with this build.

Yes, absolutely.

There are two amazing options for that. 7/8 warlord, either full warlord for morale drain or like this https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 676/armory (sadly BO has no morale drain on full warlord meh) or even better is to run full blissful to be total utility bot. At least you will have conditional but still KD

nocturnalguest wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 7:21 pm

Wdova wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:27 pm My damage with this build was so low (850-900 buffed strenght) that I rather run with SnB with this build.

Yes, absolutely.

There are two amazing options for that. 7/8 warlord, either full warlord for morale drain or like this https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 676/armory (sadly BO has no morale drain on full warlord meh) or even better is to run full blissful to be total utility bot. At least you will have conditional but still KD

My issue with WL is that the 7x lowers your damage as well, even it is for 1 ability vs the target you are on. Still nice (5 seconds and procs often) for multiple people beating on you, but not as good as it was for solo =(

Not as big of a deal for BG since they hit low anyway, but if you're looking for big hits, you'll have a -50% hit vs your target (if they are hitting back) every 10 seconds or so. Probably nice right now in this grouped WH / WE meta =p

Illuminati wrote: Wed Feb 11, 2026 12:36 am
My issue with WL is that the 7x lowers your damage as well, even it is for 1 ability vs the target you are on. Still nice (5 seconds and procs often) for multiple people beating on you, but not as good as it was for solo =(

Not as big of a deal for BG since they hit low anyway, but if you're looking for big hits, you'll have a -50% hit vs your target (if they are hitting back) every 10 seconds or so. Probably nice right now in this grouped WH / WE meta =p

Yes, of course, you nailed it. I can see detaunt on a tank being completely op before nerfs, but those were fine days, full of fun. What triggers me is that logic behind changing it doesn't somehow same way applies into rest of op things still not nerfed. And i dont anyhow support nerf approach as balance design either
No logical sequence applies same way into everything.

Sever1n wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 11:14 pm
That would be cool actually. But prob ib+dpswp will became even more nigthmare in smallscale.

I dont really care if that snb ib heresy will regenerate more in solo, but what will became of BG? Another epic jorney of destros wispering winds, and kiling last reason why snb bg may be needed in wb?

As a BG enjoyer, I dont think BG needs to have the self heal back to be honest. Feeding on Weakness %s could be changed to be something actually usable, and then BGs that are FtWK specced would have a comparable self heal to IBs, while still not giving up what is keeping them on the roster.

It was weakened and given useless adjustments in this patch, but was IB tougher than other tanks?
There is no self-healing, no auto-absorb.

- Seasoned Veteran - Damage reduction reduced from 15% to 10%.
- Grudging Blow - Now builds 10 Grudge.

ponko22 wrote: Fri Feb 13, 2026 11:16 am It was weakened and given useless adjustments in this patch, but was IB tougher than other tanks?
There is no self-healing, no auto-absorb.

- Seasoned Veteran - Damage reduction reduced from 15% to 10%.
- Grudging Blow - Now builds 10 Grudge.

IB should be the toughest to kill tank. That is what dorfs do.

Here is the most tricky part of this all. Very good question, but just as for any simple question without anykind of context its impossible to give clear short answer.
If by tougher you define everything any tank has then yeah, IB still toughest tank. Key factors for that is its mobility, M2, DR with decent avoidance. Selfhealing and absorb you mention wrong, as its not most defining factor.

15 or 10, regular, average joe who is not into succesfully doing highely organised competetive large scale combat versus x2/3 enemy numbers will not even notice anyhow. However tho, on those levels IB was absolutely unstoppable, no other tank came close for comparison. BO could be almost as mobile or better in some cases, BG could be almost as turtle or better in some cases, but none of them came close with such combination of DR, high avoidance, completely broken M2 and insane mobility which made IB uncatchable and unkillable if played and supported well. This was incredibly clear if you are playing in toptier 12-24 group against much bigger numbers.

As for regular gameplay, where average joe cant use IB tools properly (which is the case for like ~95%+ of IB population) in largescale combat it wont matter losing 5% DR. You will still die just as you did before.

What will this change actually achieve i cant tell and i believe none may.
Its kinda careful experiment and im absolutely sure balance group has absolutely no clue if it will achieve their obvious design vision of this.

Was this change actually required for whole game if we consider regular players and how they play? No, absolutely not. It changes nothing.

Was it justified to tonedown godtier IB for highest possible competitive gameplay? Yes, absolutely, it had no decent, same effort counterplay. Balance group tried to tonedown something that will not affect theoretical possibilities for same skilled ways to pilot IB so they cause least possible harm for randoms and decrease DR slightly. Supposed effect is that if IB happens to be actually caught (aint simple thing to do) it may die. Dunno if its gonna be achieved as nor none of mobility tools are harmed, nor M2 nor avoidance.