Can't play right now, I was wondering... Being kited has always been the hit-to-heal WP bane. How does the latest changes affect this? Snare on judgement sounds nice, but if it burns RF, after a few hits, if you havent been able to catch the kiters, I guess you'll be RF starved and can't slow him down anymore, with a full bar of useless AP cos you can't land any melee hits to recharge RF and sekf heal. I don't know, what's your experience?
Re: Patch Notes 26/08/2020
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:16 pm
by dalen
sixmoons48 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:42 pm
wouldnt the intent of the warrior priest changes also include soulfire being changed to require Righteous Fury instead? it deals spirit and builds RF unlike the intent yall had wrote further down the patch, if dok's version is spirit i would assume same would be done to them, but tooltip doesnt specify so i assume its physical
We might change that as well in the future. But wanted to test out the current set of changes first and tweak from there if necessary.
Re: Patch Notes 26/08/2020
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:21 pm
by Rydiak
Deadpoet wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:15 pm
Can't play right now, I was wondering... Being kited has always been the hit-to-heal WP bane. How does the latest changes affect this? Snare on judgement sounds nice, but if it burns RF, after a few hits, if you havent been able to catch the kiters, I guess you'll be RF starved and can't slow him down anymore, with a full bar of useless AP cos you can't land any melee hits to recharge RF and sekf heal. I don't know, what's your experience?
Sounds almost like this was designed with counter-play in mind.
Re: Patch Notes 26/08/2020
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:42 pm
by Zxul
Deadpoet wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:15 pm
Can't play right now, I was wondering... Being kited has always been the hit-to-heal WP bane. How does the latest changes affect this? Snare on judgement sounds nice, but if it burns RF, after a few hits, if you havent been able to catch the kiters, I guess you'll be RF starved and can't slow him down anymore, with a full bar of useless AP cos you can't land any melee hits to recharge RF and sekf heal. I don't know, what's your experience?
A time, spam Soulfire to turn your ap into RF without melee target.
Re: Patch Notes 26/08/2020
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:54 am
by Alsayr
Great change for me is protection for tanks. This giving motivation.
Re: Patch Notes 26/08/2020
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:28 pm
by Zxul
Anyway, analysis of patch's changes for dps dok/wp, in different specs:
Dw/2h:
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Execute/Hammer of Sigmar to 5 sec, without needing outside buffs- buff to burst.
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Essence Lash/Smite to no CD, without needing outside buffs- major buff to AoE, dok/wp with this patch become a very decent aoe dps, especially considering 25% armor ignore on aoe.
SE/RF management- dw/2h dok/wp can use Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire to regen SE/RF on the run, so while SE/RF management is harder there is no major change to spec. Even less if dok/wp can dedicates a tactic slot to Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above, dw/2h dok/wp can still regen SE/RF on the run, so a minor nerf to dok, a net buff to wp.
SnB:
Consume Essence/Divine Strike costing SE/RF- major buff to snb spec since those and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance use different resource now, and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance actually build SE/RF, meaning resources last for much longer when chain healing, or no running out of resources at all with outside ap regen.
Consume Essence/Divine Strike healing radius is increased from 10ft to 20ft- net buff.
SE/RF management- per above when chain healing, harder when being kited since Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire aren't available in snb - Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury slotted in is recommended.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury is highly recommended when expecting to be kited, so a nerf to dok, a buff to wp.
Chalice/book dps:
As per above, SE/RF management become easier or is still easily doable without chalice/book, while chalice/book means loosing access to new powerful ability combos (25% armor ignore+short CD execute, spammable aoe with 25% armor ignore, melee heals without running out of resources), so this spec isn't really valuable any longer.
Re: Patch Notes 26/08/2020
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:44 pm
by Rydiak
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Anyway, analysis of patch's changes for dps dok/wp, in different specs:
Dw/2h:
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Execute/Hammer of Sigmar to 5 sec, without needing outside buffs- buff to burst.
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Essence Lash/Smite to no CD, without needing outside buffs- major buff to AoE, dok/wp with this patch become a very decent aoe dps, especially considering 25% armor ignore on aoe.
SE/RF management- dw/2h dok/wp can use Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire to regen SE/RF on the run, so while SE/RF management is harder there is no major change to spec. Even less if dok/wp can dedicates a tactic slot to Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above, dw/2h dok/wp can still regen SE/RF on the run, so a minor nerf to dok, a net buff to wp.
SnB:
Consume Essence/Divine Strike costing SE/RF- major buff to snb spec since those and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance use different resource now, and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance actually build SE/RF, meaning resources last for much longer when chain healing, or no running out of resources at all with outside ap regen.
Consume Essence/Divine Strike healing radius is increased from 10ft to 20ft- net buff.
SE/RF management- per above when chain healing, harder when being kited since Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire aren't available in snb - Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury slotted in is recommended.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury is highly recommended when expecting to be kited, so a nerf to dok, a buff to wp.
Chalice/book dps:
As per above, SE/RF management become easier or is still easily doable without chalice/book, while chalice/book means loosing access to new powerful ability combos (25% armor ignore+short CD execute, spammable aoe with 25% armor ignore, melee heals without running out of resources), so this spec isn't really valuable any longer.
Smite/Essence Lash didn't gain a benefit from Sigmar's Wrath/Drowning in Blood previously, due to being Spirit damage. This change made it so Smite/Essence Lash actually benefits from Sigmar's Wrath/Drowning in Blood.
Divine Strike/Consume Essence are definitely more powerful as individual abilities (rightfully so, now costing precious class resources), but the biggest change to them is they cannot be full-time spammed for straight Spirit damage. Now class resource builders must be used in between (which was the intended change).
Chalice/Book couldn't use the Torture/Wrath abilities before either, so other than the Judgement/Fist of Khaine change to prevent spam casting, they lost nothing of value.
Edit- Oh, you said chalice/book DPS...
Agree with all other points though. I need to rewrite my guide now.
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Anyway, analysis of patch's changes for dps dok/wp, in different specs:
Dw/2h:
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Execute/Hammer of Sigmar to 5 sec, without needing outside buffs- buff to burst.
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Essence Lash/Smite to no CD, without needing outside buffs- major buff to AoE, dok/wp with this patch become a very decent aoe dps, especially considering 25% armor ignore on aoe.
SE/RF management- dw/2h dok/wp can use Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire to regen SE/RF on the run, so while SE/RF management is harder there is no major change to spec. Even less if dok/wp can dedicates a tactic slot to Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above, dw/2h dok/wp can still regen SE/RF on the run, so a minor nerf to dok, a net buff to wp.
SnB:
Consume Essence/Divine Strike costing SE/RF- major buff to snb spec since those and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance use different resource now, and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance actually build SE/RF, meaning resources last for much longer when chain healing, or no running out of resources at all with outside ap regen.
Consume Essence/Divine Strike healing radius is increased from 10ft to 20ft- net buff.
SE/RF management- per above when chain healing, harder when being kited since Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire aren't available in snb - Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury slotted in is recommended.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury is highly recommended when expecting to be kited, so a nerf to dok, a buff to wp.
Chalice/book dps:
As per above, SE/RF management become easier or is still easily doable without chalice/book, while chalice/book means loosing access to new powerful ability combos (25% armor ignore+short CD execute, spammable aoe with 25% armor ignore, melee heals without running out of resources), so this spec isn't really valuable any longer.
Smite/Essence Lash didn't gain a benefit from Sigmar's Wrath/Drowning in Blood previously, due to being Spirit damage. This change made it so Smite/Essence Lash actually benefits from Sigmar's Wrath/Drowning in Blood.
Unless the abilities do not say it, those are physical dmg?
Rydiak wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:44 pm
Divine Strike/Consume Essence are definitely more powerful as individual abilities (rightfully so, now costing precious class resources), but the biggest change to them is they cannot be full-time spammed for straight Spirit damage. Now class resource builders must be used in between (which was the intended change).
Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance however have a base healing value scaling with str, no matter the armor on target, so while spamming them for dmg requires ws (however, stacking str is still likely more beneficial), they can be spammed for healing as good as before- now with a major benefit of building SE/RF for Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance.
Rydiak wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:44 pm
Chalice/Book couldn't use the Torture/Wrath abilities before either, so other than the Judgement/Fist of Khaine change to prevent spam casting, they lost nothing of value.
Judgement/Fist of Khaine change, while being locked out of Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire SE/RF regen, means SE/RF management on chalice/books become harder, without an actual benefit for doing so, compared to using dw/2h and Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire.
For the hybrid builds I would say slotting Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury in while being dps is now the way to go.
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Anyway, analysis of patch's changes for dps dok/wp, in different specs:
Dw/2h:
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Execute/Hammer of Sigmar to 5 sec, without needing outside buffs- buff to burst.
Drowning in Blood/Sigmar's Wrath reducing CD on Essence Lash/Smite to no CD, without needing outside buffs- major buff to AoE, dok/wp with this patch become a very decent aoe dps, especially considering 25% armor ignore on aoe.
SE/RF management- dw/2h dok/wp can use Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire to regen SE/RF on the run, so while SE/RF management is harder there is no major change to spec. Even less if dok/wp can dedicates a tactic slot to Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above, dw/2h dok/wp can still regen SE/RF on the run, so a minor nerf to dok, a net buff to wp.
SnB:
Consume Essence/Divine Strike costing SE/RF- major buff to snb spec since those and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance use different resource now, and Transfer Essence/Sigmar's Radiance actually build SE/RF, meaning resources last for much longer when chain healing, or no running out of resources at all with outside ap regen.
Consume Essence/Divine Strike healing radius is increased from 10ft to 20ft- net buff.
SE/RF management- per above when chain healing, harder when being kited since Fell Sacrifice/Soulfire aren't available in snb - Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury slotted in is recommended.
Fist of Khaine's/Judgement change- per SE/RF management above Fueled Actions/Fueled Fury is highly recommended when expecting to be kited, so a nerf to dok, a buff to wp.
Chalice/book dps:
As per above, SE/RF management become easier or is still easily doable without chalice/book, while chalice/book means loosing access to new powerful ability combos (25% armor ignore+short CD execute, spammable aoe with 25% armor ignore, melee heals without running out of resources), so this spec isn't really valuable any longer.
Smite/Essence Lash didn't gain a benefit from Sigmar's Wrath/Drowning in Blood previously, due to being Spirit damage. This change made it so Smite/Essence Lash actually benefits from Sigmar's Wrath/Drowning in Blood.
Unless the abilities do not say it, those are physical dmg?
Too early in the morning. You are correct. It is physical damage.
sixmoons48 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:42 pm
wouldnt the intent of the warrior priest changes also include soulfire being changed to require Righteous Fury instead? it deals spirit and builds RF unlike the intent yall had wrote further down the patch, if dok's version is spirit i would assume same would be done to them, but tooltip doesnt specify so i assume its physical
We might change that as well in the future. But wanted to test out the current set of changes first and tweak from there if necessary.
What about the double nerf for Sovereign 7 pc for WP/DOK?
Both chance to proc and down from 45 resource to 30, which is a pretty significant downgrade for what is supposed to be endgame gear...
