Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

[Telen]

Spoiler:

Telen, very respectfully, I'm asking that you go back and read my proposals. I'm putting food on the table where there is none. My proposals literally put damage back into a rotation that would never ever exist in the current state of the game.

Not every ability has a 0s CD, such as ignite. Perhaps I should have used in my example something like boiling blood,which would really highlight the significance of a 'partial' dodge/disrupt system.

If the boiling blood is resisted (as you would prefer it to remain), the spell is dead. The potential from it (all potential) is gone, snuffed out by the wind... Not to be seen again for another 10s.

On a partial resist system, the spell LANDS! (on a failed secondary check)

Each subsequent tick would be exposed to disrupt checks per normal, except now they would deal 60% damage (as a figure I threw out there), instead of 0 damage!

In every possible way this is a buff to dot damage, and rotations. Spells will land more, resists and dodges will not be NEARLY as imbalanced as they are in their current state.

Its just my opinion that low damage is next to meaningless though. Healers have no lack of ap or problem with overheal. bw/sorc might get some benefit at 60% damage with their mechanic pushing it. A 60% damage dot hitting for 100 hp I'd rather not even bother giving their healers the satisfaction.

[Klesko]

Spoiler:

Telen, very respectfully, I'm asking that you go back and read my proposals. I'm putting food on the table where there is none. My proposals literally put damage back into a rotation that would never ever exist in the current state of the game.

Not every ability has a 0s CD, such as ignite. Perhaps I should have used in my example something like boiling blood,which would really highlight the significance of a 'partial' dodge/disrupt system.

If the boiling blood is resisted (as you would prefer it to remain), the spell is dead. The potential from it (all potential) is gone, snuffed out by the wind... Not to be seen again for another 10s.

On a partial resist system, the spell LANDS! (on a failed secondary check)

Each subsequent tick would be exposed to disrupt checks per normal, except now they would deal 60% damage (as a figure I threw out there), instead of 0 damage!

In every possible way this is a buff to dot damage, and rotations. Spells will land more, resists and dodges will not be NEARLY as imbalanced as they are in their current state.

Its just my opinion that low damage is next to meaningless though. Healers have no lack of ap or problem with overheal. bw/sorc might get some benefit at 60% damage with their mechanic pushing it. A 60% damage dot hitting for 100 hp I'd rather not even bother giving their healers the satisfaction.

I really don't understand what you're suggesting or getting at... 0 damage or a negated debuff/spell/arrow is, by your definition, a meaningless result. 0 dmg or a null effect is as meaningless as it gets. The fact that debuffs would have an additional opportunity to land in a partial dodge/disrupt environment, is a big deal. The fact that a spell or ability would survive to even get those further dot ticks or apply their debuff component where they wouldn't have before, is a big deal, and far from meaningless.

I can not in any plainer language detail to you that the 'partial' proposal is significantly and vastly superior for RDPS potential than the current iteration of the defense system.

When you scoff at appying a dot/debuff in a situation where the thing should've never survived its application (per current system), and you additionally scoff at adding damage where there would be none, and decry it's meaningless, I have to conclude that you're being most unreasonable, as further evidenced by your obstinate proposal that the current state is somehow better for rdps than the much greater potential I've laid forth.

Your entire stance rests on the foundation that disrupted/dodged attacks shouldn't have their damage reduced, because healers otherwise wouldn't be tested... I think you miss the point entirely of someone developing their defensive traits. What you intend with your words is to completely and utterly trivialize dodge and disrupt.

[scatterthewinds]

its fine as is. if anything rdps is still too strong. The ability to assist from range just by tabbing or clicking is underrated.

[Martok]

Spoiler:

its fine as is. if anything rdps is still too strong. The ability to assist from range just by tabbing or clicking is underrated.

Well the squeaky wheel...

Read BDF rules - User received a warning.

[Karast]

the issue with disrupt is 2 fold.

The first is that it is far to easy to reach higher disrupt values due to renown disrupt, htl, and other class specific buffs and tactics. Only a healer 70-80% is easy to get.

The second issue is that class for class some have ways of bypassing disrupt, and others don't. This creates a real haves / haves not issue with builds that make it almost impossible for some builds, and careers to function at all.

My suggestion to address this issue is to simply remove mitigation stats from core stats. That goes for dodge / parry as well. Add a small amount of base dodge / disrupt / parry to reach base rank 40 levels, but then remove them from the core stats. Something like 5/5/5. This makes it so the avoidance stats are not completely stripped, and can still be stacked via abilities and renown, but it will be much harder to hit the high end levels like many easily do now.

More might need to be done with certain key abilities like htl, but with lower base resists it will help a lot.

[wwright72]

Spoiler:

Telen, very respectfully, I'm asking that you go back and read my proposals. I'm putting food on the table where there is none. My proposals literally put damage back into a rotation that would never ever exist in the current state of the game.

Not every ability has a 0s CD, such as ignite. Perhaps I should have used in my example something like boiling blood,which would really highlight the significance of a 'partial' dodge/disrupt system.

If the boiling blood is resisted (as you would prefer it to remain), the spell is dead. The potential from it (all potential) is gone, snuffed out by the wind... Not to be seen again for another 10s.

On a partial resist system, the spell LANDS! (on a failed secondary check)

Each subsequent tick would be exposed to disrupt checks per normal, except now they would deal 60% damage (as a figure I threw out there), instead of 0 damage!

In every possible way this is a buff to dot damage, and rotations. Spells will land more, resists and dodges will not be NEARLY as imbalanced as they are in their current state.

Its just my opinion that low damage is next to meaningless though. Healers have no lack of ap or problem with overheal. bw/sorc might get some benefit at 60% damage with their mechanic pushing it. A 60% damage dot hitting for 100 hp I'd rather not even bother giving their healers the satisfaction.

I agree. Low guaranteed damage is only fluff; it does nothing.

[Klesko]

Spoiler:

Telen, very respectfully, I'm asking that you go back and read my proposals. I'm putting food on the table where there is none. My proposals literally put damage back into a rotation that would never ever exist in the current state of the game.

Not every ability has a 0s CD, such as ignite. Perhaps I should have used in my example something like boiling blood,which would really highlight the significance of a 'partial' dodge/disrupt system.

If the boiling blood is resisted (as you would prefer it to remain), the spell is dead. The potential from it (all potential) is gone, snuffed out by the wind... Not to be seen again for another 10s.

On a partial resist system, the spell LANDS! (on a failed secondary check)

Each subsequent tick would be exposed to disrupt checks per normal, except now they would deal 60% damage (as a figure I threw out there), instead of 0 damage!

In every possible way this is a buff to dot damage, and rotations. Spells will land more, resists and dodges will not be NEARLY as imbalanced as they are in their current state.

Its just my opinion that low damage is next to meaningless though. Healers have no lack of ap or problem with overheal. bw/sorc might get some benefit at 60% damage with their mechanic pushing it. A 60% damage dot hitting for 100 hp I'd rather not even bother giving their healers the satisfaction.

I agree. Low guaranteed damage is only fluff; it does nothing.

I honest to god can't tell if you guys are being intentionally obtuse or if you truly fathom the world through kaleidoscope lenses that an outside observer can only marvel at.

The current defense mechanic 100% negates the effect of an ability or spell. This means 0 damage. This means no CC. This means no debuff. You don't even SNIFF "fluff" damage, as you guys love to spout.

I put forth a string of proposals (of which someone can expound upon if they so desired), which would lessen the impact of dodge and disrupt, while maintaining its place and usefulness by not trivializing its function or purpose.

Your (the pair of you thus far) notion that dodge and disrupted abilities should act as if they were not in any way defensed is beyond absurd. Dodge and Disrupt is a defensive stat that should, hold onto your hats here, actually serve to protect your character from hostile fire. The "fluff" damage that we're now relegating this discussion to, applies WHEN a defensive check is made and succeeded at. Shocker that that should in some way protect the character who was lucky enough to win a defensive roll check against the hostile ability.

In my scenario of a 25% disrupt rate, you're still doing Non-"fluff" damage 75% of the time. Zzzzzz
This means you're doing lesser damage the other 25% of the time, which once again... is doing way more damage (and debuff effects) than the current iteration which would reduce that to 0 and null.

I said previously I couldn't make it any simpler with written language, so I'm instead going to use numbers in hopes that something somehow comes across here.

With the 25% disrupt rate: Deal 100% dmg against 75% of the time... comes out to 75% of your damage potential.

New iteration: Deal 100% dmg 75% of the time, plus 60% dmg the other 25% of the time (will keep the math simple here and assume you always do that "fluff" dmg on a dodge or disrupt)... comes out to (75% + (.25 X .6)) 90% of your damage potential (and untold more debuffs and CC opportunities)

/Drop Mic

[geezereur]

Just revert the changes to make it work like it was before, both disrupt/dodge changes and the changes to dot ticks being able to be disrupted or dodged on all ticks.

[Acidic]

I believe that the argument of disrupt being 360 is a solid argument for reducing the effect of disrupt in the base formula.
The others part of how a healers primary stat contributes to a secondary stat needs to also be examined,
Willpower contribution for defense disrupt should be reduced in the same way streangth contributing to strike through also should be looked at. IMO primary stats having secondary functions gives “free stuff” to classes without them having to think so much, just dumbs down the game and reduces the variety of builds and fine tuning

[wwright72]

With the 25% disrupt rate: Deal 100% dmg against 75% of the time... comes out to 75% of your damage potential.

New iteration: Deal 100% dmg 75% of the time, plus 60% dmg the other 25% of the time (will keep the math simple here and assume you always do that "fluff" dmg on a dodge or disrupt)... comes out to (75% + (.25 X .6)) 90% of your damage potential (and untold more debuffs and CC opportunities)

Unless you massively nerfed that amount of disrupt available this would just end up casters doing only 60% of they're dmg most of the time.