Countering zerging in T2/3

[grumcajs]

Let me jump in here for a second and go back to something Echosta mentioned on the previous pages.

If the AoE target selector were to select the 9 nearest valid targets, would this be a major help?

Yes coz that would mean you could focus bomb an aera without getting a bunch of random hits were you don't want em. Means it adds skill to were you place the AoE bomb as a unit

almost spilled my coffee over the keyboard

[Azarael]

Fine. In the next patch, the target selector will hit the closest targets.

[raught19]

idk if its doable. but something I was thinking about was a debuff on tons of healers near eachother in RVR. or Longer/Stronger resurrection debuffs. I.E.

2 healers within 25ft of each other reduces healing they do by 5% and so on. Capping at 30% reduction.

Or Resurrection debuff reduces healing on target by 50% for its duration.

[roadkillrobin]

idk if its doable. but something I was thinking about was a debuff on tons of healers near eachother in RVR. or Longer/Stronger resurrection debuffs. I.E.

2 healers within 25ft of each other reduces healing they do by 5% and so on. Capping at 30% reduction.

Or Resurrection debuff reduces healing on target by 50% for its duration.

I think meassures to deal with Zergs can be done by reducing the effectivness of several warbands blobbing together can be done by utilizing objectives and not by placing debuffs on the players as this can easily be exploited by gankers who don't even contributing to the campain. An example of this would be increasing BO cap timers and Keep health pools by the number of players trying to capture it. Concrete example up to 12 man takes a BO 3min cap time. 24 man 5 min. Anything more then 24 man 15min.

[grumcajs]

idk if its doable. but something I was thinking about was a debuff on tons of healers near eachother in RVR. or Longer/Stronger resurrection debuffs. I.E.

2 healers within 25ft of each other reduces healing they do by 5% and so on. Capping at 30% reduction.

Or Resurrection debuff reduces healing on target by 50% for its duration.

I think meassures to deal with Zergs can be done by reducing the effectivness of several warbands blobbing together can be done by utilizing objectives and not by placing debuffs on the players as this can easily be exploited by gankers who don't even contributing to the campain. An example of this would be increasing BO cap timers and Keep health pools by the number of players trying to capture it. Concrete example up to 12 man takes a BO 3min cap time. 24 man 5 min. Anything more then 24 man 15min.

horrible idea. again you are trying to solve a problem but completely avoid the main source that is causing this problem.

Main source of population imbalance (xrealm, rve etc.) is just there is only 1 side with players willing to make and lead warbands. You can try to fix problem whatever you like (remove zone tick, increase siege weapons dmg, more HP to doors based on aao, BO lock timers, ram dmg based on BOs owned etc. etc.) but its just ignoring the main source.

For example (not any facts) lets say:
we have 70% average casual players that just wanna log, jump to the fight and lock a zone for example
we have 30% players that think and pretend there is some more skill involved running in solo or in premade smallscale

these 70% hop to any open warband they see on their list and head there. when they do not see any wb around, they might just ask where is the action, if there is any wb up (pretty common in chat)etc., they usually might roam a bit and then just switch tier or side. and when they find some open wb on other side/tier, they play the other side/tier thus making the population imbalance even higher.

so these 30% might eventually face 3 times their numbers. not only that. they would usually run in smallscale, avoiding even the last scaps of realm population theres left , so they would face overwhelming numbers and then whine about zerg.

This game never was about smallscale. Maybe its harsh to say but game shouldnt change to suit smallscale fans. Smallscale fans should change to suit the game.

-as this thread was mainly about t2/t3 just 1 example : we had wb up in the emp, enemies had solid aao, more players were asking in /s for spot in wb. we were wiped horribly cuz whole frontline was bashing the doors while completely avoiding warnings about oil is going to be up soon. then some random aoe bomb and we were forced to flee. 10 mins after we had aao and lost the zone. and do you think what? enemies had an open warband so players just jumped there thus completely switching the population balance in 10 mins

[Aquilon]

Spoiler:

horrible idea. again you are trying to solve a problem but completely avoid the main source that is causing this problem.

Main source of population imbalance (xrealm, rve etc.) is just there is only 1 side with players willing to make and lead warbands. You can try to fix problem whatever you like (remove zone tick, increase siege weapons dmg, more HP to doors based on aao, BO lock timers, ram dmg based on BOs owned etc. etc.) but its just ignoring the main source.

For example (not any facts) lets say:
we have 70% average casual players that just wanna log, jump to the fight and lock a zone for example
we have 30% players that think and pretend there is some more skill involved running in solo or in premade smallscale

these 70% hop to any open warband they see on their list and head there. when they do not see any wb around, they might just ask where is the action, if there is any wb up (pretty common in chat)etc., they usually might roam a bit and then just switch tier or side. and when they find some open wb on other side/tier, they play the other side/tier thus making the population imbalance even higher.

so these 30% might eventually face 3 times their numbers. not only that. they would usually run in smallscale, avoiding even the last scaps of realm population theres left , so they would face overwhelming numbers and then whine about zerg.

This game never was about smallscale. Maybe its harsh to say but game shouldnt change to suit smallscale fans. Smallscale fans should change to suit the game.

-as this thread was mainly about t2/t3 just 1 example : we had wb up in the emp, enemies had solid aao, more players were asking in /s for spot in wb. we were wiped horribly cuz whole frontline was bashing the doors while completely avoiding warnings about oil is going to be up soon. then some random aoe bomb and we were forced to flee. 10 mins after we had aao and lost the zone. and do you think what? enemies had an open warband so players just jumped there thus completely switching the population balance in 10 mins

So, what do you suggest? Brainwash people?

[grumcajs]

Spoiler:

horrible idea. again you are trying to solve a problem but completely avoid the main source that is causing this problem.

Main source of population imbalance (xrealm, rve etc.) is just there is only 1 side with players willing to make and lead warbands. You can try to fix problem whatever you like (remove zone tick, increase siege weapons dmg, more HP to doors based on aao, BO lock timers, ram dmg based on BOs owned etc. etc.) but its just ignoring the main source.

For example (not any facts) lets say:
we have 70% average casual players that just wanna log, jump to the fight and lock a zone for example
we have 30% players that think and pretend there is some more skill involved running in solo or in premade smallscale

these 70% hop to any open warband they see on their list and head there. when they do not see any wb around, they might just ask where is the action, if there is any wb up (pretty common in chat)etc., they usually might roam a bit and then just switch tier or side. and when they find some open wb on other side/tier, they play the other side/tier thus making the population imbalance even higher.

so these 30% might eventually face 3 times their numbers. not only that. they would usually run in smallscale, avoiding even the last scaps of realm population theres left , so they would face overwhelming numbers and then whine about zerg.

This game never was about smallscale. Maybe its harsh to say but game shouldnt change to suit smallscale fans. Smallscale fans should change to suit the game.

-as this thread was mainly about t2/t3 just 1 example : we had wb up in the emp, enemies had solid aao, more players were asking in /s for spot in wb. we were wiped horribly cuz whole frontline was bashing the doors while completely avoiding warnings about oil is going to be up soon. then some random aoe bomb and we were forced to flee. 10 mins after we had aao and lost the zone. and do you think what? enemies had an open warband so players just jumped there thus completely switching the population balance in 10 mins

So, what do you suggest? Brainwash people?

I do not suggest anything cuz I have really no idea how to "fix" it. Maybe after that "xrealm stop" it would be better. But idea to punish people that play in warbands (how it is supposed to be played) sounds kinda horrible to me.

[Battleshadow666]

I edited my original post for those who want to reread the new one.

[roadkillrobin]

No the root of the problem is multiple warbands of guilds and pugs making a unstoppeble deathstar by blobbing in one location since there is no reasons for all these warbands to be on different locations. By reducing the effectivness of the deathstar by forcing it to spread out over different location so fights gonna be 24man vs 24 man instead of 24 vs 72 gonna solve both the xrealming and the overblobbing.

[grumcajs]

No the root of the problem is multiple warbands of guilds and pugs making a unstoppeble deathstar by blobbing in one location since there is no reasons for all these warbands to be on different locations. By reducing the effectivness of the deathstar by forcing it to spread out over different location so fights gonna be 24man vs 24 man instead of 24 vs 72 gonna solve both the xrealming and the overblobbing.

what? multiple warbands blob isnt root of a problem. its another result of a problem. lets say we have 50/50 order/destro. what leads them to 70/30 etc? thats the root of it, not some crappy blob

u posted something about making BOs more important to keep siege and scale the timer with players attempting to take it. Still I do not see any way how it could solve anything when talking about 24v72 ... out of 24 players you would send 1 grp to retake BOs so it would be 18 in keep vs 72. even when whole warband of enemies would abandon the siege to retake objectives it would still be 18v48 at keep. doesnt solves anything. you are still outnumbered almost 3to1

with similar numbers it might work but actually make the keep impossible to take cuz you would need to keep your forces divided on objectives thus making yourself in disadvantage that can lead to a wipe cuz enemy would have similar or even more numbers, strong position on/behind walls + siege engines so what do you would happen? even bigger blob

so it would help only when your side is in slight disadvantage to make it easier to wipe out attackers but making huge impact on every other possible scenario.