[White Lion] Pounce need a Cooldown

[Jaycub]

I checked, you can't run that build till RR 70. Was gonna run it on my BO if I didn't delete him :^)

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bo; ... :;;0:0:0:0:

[Marsares]

I already dread to think what the balance forum is going to be like based on this thread alone. It is obvious that it will become a total witch-hunt where hordes of opinionated drones with torches and pitchforks will call for nerfs of single abilities because they expose them as players, rather than looking at a class as a whole and judging what impact that ability has.

Fact of the matter remains that the WL is one of the few classes where it's mechanic is - in most instances - a liability rather than a benefit. It's all nice and well calling for the nerf of a singe ability, but that very well may render the class as a whole not viable.

I can think of quite a few classes that are in their totality OP - and some that have been so nearly throughout the whole of WAR - and perhaps the Devs should focus first on those, rather than potentially following opinions of the masses, as experience have told me that the masses have no interest in balance, but only wish to push their own agenda.

No doubt I am guilty of this too as I wish the WL to be in a good shape, but I do at least acknowledge this and argue for it, rather than demanding OP-ness or making QQ-nerf threads about other classes.

[Shadowgurke]

I already dread to think what the balance forum is going to be like based on this thread alone. It is obvious that it will become a total witch-hunt where hordes of opinionated drones with torches and pitchforks will call for nerfs of single abilities because they expose them as players, rather than looking at a class as a whole and judging what impact that ability has.

Luckily the Devs can seperate kneejerk comments from real concerns

Fact of the matter remains that the WL is one of the few classes where it's mechanic is - in most instances - a liability rather than a benefit. It's all nice and well calling for the nerf of a singe ability, but that very well may render the class as a whole not viable.

It doesn't matter. Whether the class is balanced by having a "nerfing" mechanic (which WL is certainly not the only one) or if the class is balanced by having a really strong mechanic. The end result is what counts. Imagine a WL with 100% uptime on the pet. It would be absolutely insane

I can think of quite a few classes that are in their totality OP - and some that have been so nearly throughout the whole of WAR - and perhaps the Devs should focus first on those, rather than potentially following opinions of the masses, as experience have told me that the masses have no interest in balance, but only wish to push their own agenda.

Not saying WL needs a nerf but other classes needing nerfs does not exclude WL from getting the same treatment

[Valfaros]

So yeah: the BO could perma-snare his enemies and maybe someone in his group manages to push the backline. Order can do the same but in a much easier way thanks to Pounce & ranged KDs, and if the WL is in trouble he can immediately pounce back (come one, the KotBS/IB can easily keep at least 1 guy perma-snared).

Well with the tactic a KotBs can snare 3 targets at once which makes it so funny to chase the order range dd's you will always have a snare from one of these KotBs but KotBs is going to be a topic for balance changes anyway....

Still pounce is the only gap closer in game. Burst dmg from WL is good-strong + good utility + outstandingly good mobility ---> nerv the outstanding part.

+I find it funny that every WL is saying that good WL never spam pounce because they will run out of AP. So basically you should not have a problem with a CD right? Should be a buff to every WL because they can't go full numb mode and spamm the **** out of it. If you come now with well you are sometimes not close enough to hit it well welcome to world of every other meele besides destro don't have rKD or this cool multi slow (on 5 sec cd) KotBs has, who just needs to snare someone close to the desired target in order to slow both with it. Also 30 AP is actually the cost of nearly every single damaging ability calling this thing expensive is ridicullus. Costs the same as things that don't do anything besides dmg but is too expensive yeah right....

[Vayra]

Even more so, when skills are being nerfed because they become strong in a group-setting due to proper coordination, I will start fearing for this game.

So you are in favour of reversing the Surging Pain / Scorched Earth nerfs as those were nerfed because those abilities were too strong in an organised group setting, without being anywhere near OP on their own?

Nerfing due to strength in organised wb scale play should be the primary metric for deciding what needs nerfing/buffing.
1v1 or even 6v6 are kinda irrelevant for balance discussions in a game built around warband scales.

[Liandel]

You dont talk about KD + Pounce + Aoe Snare on destro, you talk about healers being isolated, you talk about tanks having to track back to save that healer, you talk about a RP staggering the other healer, all while somehow, the destruction just runs around screaming "WE ARE SNARED, WHAT TO DO" letting the WL a perfect path of stepping stones to pounce back to safety.

This is not your normal run of the mill situation, this is you creating a special encounter perfect for the WL to shine.

Ok, ignore the RP stagger. The SW himself could use his 4 second Silence. But let's ignore that one too... a KotBS/IB AoE snaring destro + WL setup is pretty common. Check KotBS threads and the best ones all suggest to slot Slice Through. This lets the WL Pounce to enemy backline and apply pressure for a few seconds. Worst case scenario for him, destro manages to defend their backline but he manages to escape thanks to Charge or Pounce (his tanks will be able to at least keep one target perma-snared). As soon as Destro pushes back, he can try it again.

Anyway, this point is moot now (for me). After all the discussions had in this thread, i agree that a CD is not needed IF WL is not allowed to pounce mid-air anymore.

You do realize that server lag/latency effectively disables pounce for a few seconds in certain situations, right? Especially if the WL pounces into a knockback, the pounce bugs out and there's extreme delay.

Even the most "OP" WL ability still bugs out completely at random and fails to work.

Also, your 'WL pressures backline" scenario works really well if nobody is paying any attention to the WL at all. TTK is so low in RoR that going rambo into the backlines with pounce is going to get any WL popped in under 3 seconds. Pouncing into the backline like that is really, really dumb and gets so many WLs killed needlessly. Your situation requires the destro to be completely oblivious to the WL's existence.

Also, @ everyone saying it's okay for WLs to not have any CC that they can control because other classes can provide the CC for them: That's unacceptable. Literally every other class can rely upon themselves to be able to provide CC to the team, WL shouldn't be an exception to this. It's a BS argument to say it's not a game based around 1v1s, because CC timing is equally important in group fights. Every class should have all their abilities functioning as intended, full stop. It's unacceptable that WL is 100% dependent upon a group if they want to have ANY forms of CC.

[maddox911]

If anything pounce needs to be fixed, not nerfed. I dont recall anyone ever complaining about white lions in the entire history of retail. People are just salty because few people jumped on keep walls yesterday. Or do you seriously think its coincidence this popped up few hours after the siege?

[Liandel]

Also, if you're a healer getting killed to ONLY pouncespam, you are probably unskilled and need to learn to hit the detaunt button or develop a heal rotation that won't be bursted through by a weak ability hitting you once a GCD. Pounce does way less base damage than most of the other WL abilities. If you died to pounce spam, you would probably die to torment spam in a quarter of the time.

If you lose a keep due to some unguarded, unhealed WLs on the walls, you were probably going to lose that keep anyways. Unsupported WL is one of the easiest classes to nuke from range. Stop scapegoating a single ability to justify your loss.

[Toldavf]

WL is one of the easiest classes to nuke from range.

Bluff

[Valfaros]

Also, @ everyone saying it's okay for WLs to not have any CC that they can control because other classes can provide the CC for them: That's unacceptable. Literally every other class can rely upon themselves to be able to provide CC to the team, WL shouldn't be an exception to this. It's a BS argument to say it's not a game based around 1v1s, because CC timing is equally important in group fights. Every class should have all their abilities functioning as intended, full stop. It's unacceptable that WL is 100% dependent upon a group if they want to have ANY forms of CC.

Well you have a slow right also a CC so don't go that easy on that term if you don't know what it is....Then calling every other ability you also have through your pet useless or not controlable is just ridiculous they work and they work often enough and you have plenty of them. Toss back, knock down and silience there are classes that have less...and don't forget that incredibly strong moral one that rootes the target in place for 10 s.
Squig has to deal with the same thing and yes that the pet just disappears sometimes in oRvR is bad but that is a bug it could be fixed at any given time and in sc's this isn't even a problem.

+Yeah easiest class to kill from range. Yeah right just take a step back and you will be save. There is no such thing as rKD on destro to prevent walking a few steps back. Try doing this then could help you.