Return of Reckoning

Genisaurus wrote:Anyway, Pug scenario - we've been talking about it for a while, we like it - we've even dogeared Khaine's Embrace for it. We've just been working on more important things. Be patient, and we'll get around to it. But I've also talked a lot about why split queues won't work, and why we can't make more than maybe 1-2 scenarios in each rotation pug-only and premade-only.

sad panda :/

Nevertheless If you go for KE I'd like suggest that you tinker a bit with the spawn guards since the "los break slope" on dest spawn was so so design

They should let duos into the pug only que imo.

Aside from solo and full 6 im pretty sure 2 mans are the next more popular thing. And in my own experience as well.

The biggest advantage this would give people would be a 2 man in the worst case scenario allows a MDPS to que up with a guaranteed guard. The SC manager should cover proper group compositions regardless. The more I think about this actually I like it more because one of the biggest worries when solo queing on MDPS is lack of guard which is lets face it required to do anything. This would give an avenue or at least promote the idea that if you are a MDPS solo queing you should team up with a guard, not only will this enhance your own experience but you are not subjugating the other players in the SC to having to drag around an unguarded MDPS (food).


On another note, I do hope that RDPS gets some kind of love for scenario type enviroments, it's alright now as we see some guilds running successful 3-2-1 groups, but expecting random pugs to pull that off is just unthinkable. It is only going to get worse for RDPS in T4, we will start seeing certain mechanics like pulls, more renown points to throw around for utility, TTK going down (more emphasis on having tank based mechanics in your party, only having 1 in a party hurts).

Also wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing 3 tanks (2 offensive) 1 dps 2 healer 3-2-1's. Offensive tanks particularly SM and BO have been putting up numbers comparable to low tier MDPS in a lot of the 6v6 CW I have seen. This would just be the end of RDPS in small scale structured PvP imo.

Jaycub wrote:They should let duos into the pug only que imo.

Aside from solo and full 6 im pretty sure 2 mans are the next more popular thing. And in my own experience as well.

The biggest advantage this would give people would be a 2 man in the worst case scenario allows a MDPS to que up with a guaranteed guard. The SC manager should cover proper group compositions regardless. The more I think about this actually I like it more because one of the biggest worries when solo queing on MDPS is lack of guard which is lets face it required to do anything. This would give an avenue or at least promote the idea that if you are a MDPS solo queing you should team up with a guard, not only will this enhance your own experience but you are not subjugating the other players in the SC to having to drag around an unguarded MDPS (food).


On another note, I do hope that RDPS gets some kind of love for scenario type enviroments, it's alright now as we see some guilds running successful 3-2-1 groups, but expecting random pugs to pull that off is just unthinkable. It is only going to get worse for RDPS in T4, we will start seeing certain mechanics like pulls, more renown points to throw around for utility, TTK going down (more emphasis on having tank based mechanics in your party, only having 1 in a party hurts).

Also wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing 3 tanks (2 offensive) 1 dps 2 healer 3-2-1's. Offensive tanks particularly SM and BO have been putting up numbers comparable to low tier MDPS in a lot of the 6v6 CW I have seen. This would just be the end of RDPS in small scale structured PvP imo.

Duos would be great in pug scens. The only problem is it would make it even easier for a guild to cheese in a 6 man by all que'ing at the same time, since theyd only have to coordinate 3 q's instead of 6. But thats going to be a minor problem with pug scens either way, so its not a huge deal, and worst case scenario you could just make it bannable if a group consistently does it.

For your other note about rdps, it would be nice if balance changes make the 3-2-1 groups more appealing, or just a simple 2-2-2 group with a rdps instead of 2 melee. But until then, yes, more open scens that are favored to rdps would be great.

Jaycub wrote:They should let duos into the pug only que imo.

Guessing you will see more 2x RDPS then TANK/MDPS macro assist farming pugs

Jaycub wrote: On another note, I do hope that RDPS gets some kind of love for scenario type enviroments,

Why would RDPS need more love in SCs?

From my POV being ranged is very comfortable whenever your side has the advantage and you need very little support. An experienced RDPS can perform well even when the other team has the advantage and SCs that field more then 12v12 are "a walk in the park".

MDPS on the other hand are gimped wo support and really dwindle in efficiency if the other team has the advantage (even with support). A MDPS in melee range will at all time be available as target for more enemies then a well positioned RDPS.

Example My MDPS that has 98% solo SCs has a 30-40% of the kill per death compared to the K/D of my RDPS that I also solo queue 99%. I don't blacklist so that is including GoE, RF and LToI

Jaycub wrote:They should let duos into the pug only que imo.


On another note, I do hope that RDPS gets some kind of love for scenario type enviroments, it's alright now as we see some guilds running successful 3-2-1 groups, but expecting random pugs to pull that off is just unthinkable. It is only going to get worse for RDPS in T4, we will start seeing certain mechanics like pulls, more renown points to throw around for utility, TTK going down (more emphasis on having tank based mechanics in your party, only having 1 in a party hurts).

Also wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing 3 tanks (2 offensive) 1 dps 2 healer 3-2-1's. Offensive tanks particularly SM and BO have been putting up numbers comparable to low tier MDPS in a lot of the 6v6 CW I have seen. This would just be the end of RDPS in small scale structured PvP imo.

Why would RDPS need any additional love in any scenario? Unlike MDPS, they do not require two additional archetypes (tank w/ guard + healer) in order to do their job. They can hang back at max range, not get hit by anything, and DPS freely with no risk to themselves. Unlike MDPS, they can continue to perform their role (DPSing) in all situations, being spawncamped or spawncamping, whereas MDPS have to wait until something gets close enough.

At this point in the game without trivial blows, I'd venture to say that RDPS is far too overtuned and is downright OP in most scenario situations. I see BWs, SWs, Sorc, and SH dominating the raw damage numbers every single scenario, whereas MDPS are screwed unless a specific group composition allows them to perform their jobs.

Trivial blows would help mitigate some of this imbalance, but I have yet to see how balance will be once t4 on this server is released. ATM though, the scales are tipped HEAVILY in RDPS's favor.

~LIandel
RR38 WL of <Obliteration>

LFRvR when?

rdps only suffers against melee train premades on any pug sc you are the king of the hill right now. Especially sh/sw with their prolonged range you have quite an easy life to pick and kill your target

I completely agree that RDPS don't need any more love right now, only would like to add that this is true NOT ONLY for scs but also in oRvR and even (arguably, OK) in solo roaming situations where classes like dps AMs/shamans, SWs and SHs rule in almost absolute power. I understand this thread is about scenarios so I won't go farther into it, only pointing out a possible discussion topic for some other time.

Scs were just meant to be a fun distraction and allow players from within a zone including those doing pve to access pvp from anywhere and contribute to the realm war. The realm war was meant to be the meat of the game. Getting involved and helping your realm. Unfortunately and to the detriment of the game for everyone many guilds started to just not bother about their realm. They had everything they needed as the rewards that required realm cooperation were removed. Scs in their state from live were a cancer that ate away at what was meant to be the real game.

Its important to remember the lessons mythic learned and why they massively scaled back the importance of scenarios. That in alpha were the main rvr part of the realm war. Instead bringing in Keeps and guild claiming for the real group content.

Deadpoet wrote:I completely agree that RDPS don't need any more love right now, only would like to add that this is true NOT ONLY for scs but also in oRvR and even (arguably, OK) in solo roaming situations where classes like dps AMs/shamans, SWs and SHs rule in almost absolute power. I understand this thread is about scenarios so I won't go farther into it, only pointing out a possible discussion topic for some other time.

Thats just how it was on live rdps were better in rvr, melee trains in smallscale. Problem is buffing either makes the other dominance even greater.