Shaman Discussion, more

[bloodi]

um wild healing proc on heal. old sov proc was 50 ap on heal. There are not so few procs on heal /aka on hots also/ but nothing at shaman tools.

On direct heal, not hots iirc, its an huge difference. However i am not totally sure of this.

Restro burst procing on heal wont be OP cos you still got 3 sec to gain the ap so u got hidden cd. Not to mention that i cant see how casting one gheal and having 6 chances to proc the ap is worse than keeping hots to proc it
1 g heal = 5 checks to proc it NOW
1 hot = 4/5 checks to proc it over time \9/15 sec\
Gheal proc is so good that everything else is just decent at best...

Its op because it changes from a % chance every time you use a gcd to multiple chances everytime you get a gcd, i am sure you can understand the difference between the two.

Specially on hots, you can hot a group and never have to worry about ap again, every time any of the hots crit, you get ap, more than you ever used on the hot and that can happen multiple times.

Its actually a text book definition of broken.

As i said i dont mind giving shamans wild healing to help with ap issues, restorative burst proccing on hots would be way too much however.

[Nekkma]

Given RB was up 90% of the time if you spammed gheal on live i cannot see how it would be broken to have it procc from hots, unless of course one consider it broken that gheal mean 6 procc chances.

Anyway, I only use RB if i suspect i need to cast lots of gheals. This usualy means i am the only healer in a group. If grouped with a dok I would never slot RB, even if it would procc from hots.

[Gobtar]

Its op because it changes from a % chance every time you use a gcd to multiple chances everytime you get a gcd, i am sure you can understand the difference between the two.

His point is right now group heals already give you a multple chances of procing RestBurst. Why is spamming group heals the most effective way of keeping your AP? If someone takes the time to set up Hots on 2 players, and wants to focus heal a single target, even with the proposed change you are still less likely to proc RB than a single group heal spam. Each player you tag is a change of getting RB...it's why (unfortunately and Ironically) Group heal is the best Direct heal shamans have, and it's better to spam that then any other direct heal spell.

[Nameless]

Given RB was up 90% of the time if you spammed gheal on live i cannot see how it would be broken to have it procc from hots, unless of course one consider it broken that gheal mean 6 procc chances.

Anyway, I only use RB if i suspect i need to cast lots of gheals. This usualy means i am the only healer in a group. If grouped with a dok I would never slot RB, even if it would procc from hots.

that is what i mean, gheal's 6 chances for proc at same time is so broken but noone complain instead the world is on fire when hot may proc restro burst that got 3 sec cd anyway. Zealot armor proc is similar as proposed rb change and it is far from gamebreaking even without the internal cd that rb got

pre-redesign sov gear for shamans had 50 ap proc on HEAL. That means from hots aswell. That was muuuch more powerfull than resto burst and honetly back then only few shamans were suing 7 sov for the proc. So yea

ps btw i am all for nerfing the multiple proc chance from gheal. ALL changes that bring the focus on ST heal are wellcome. And RB change will do that. Select target, waste cgd and ap and got some benefit for some ap is muuch better than brainless gheal spam.

[Sulorie]

Sulorie loves to argue just to argue it seems. There are many builds that are viable and yours is not optimal, in my opinion. Heal debuff is always welcomed even if it's trash like that shamans. Toughness debuff is not really good when you have aura debuffing about half. Tactic for 100 toughness debuff is not really worth it. It takes off morale of 1 person as opposed to giving your team a morale booster. If I felt like I needed to kite more I'd pick up Run Away instead of divine fury because I don't think SHaman does enough DPS to be giving up so much healing and kiting for 20% damage increase.


http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sha ... 8:;0:0:0:0:

What ever works for you.

Not going to try to convince you, as I see it is pointless to explain why it is worse.

[bloodi]

His point is right now group heals already give you a multple chances of procing RestBurst. Why is spamming group heals the most effective way of keeping your AP? If someone takes the time to set up Hots on 2 players, and wants to focus heal a single target, even with the proposed change you are still less likely to proc RB than a single group heal spam. Each player you tag is a change of getting RB...it's why (unfortunately and Ironically) Group heal is the best Direct heal shamans have, and it's better to spam that then any other direct heal spell.

I see his point, however i dont think you are seeing mine at all.

Right now gheal is indeed the best way to get RB to proc, it will almost guarantee it but RB is based on crits, meaning it procs every time you crit with a heal right?

So using 1 gcd, may or may not give 1 RB proc, if we use gheal, we guarantee a proc, if we have 100% healing crit, we also guarantee a proc on every gcd.

Now lets say RB worked on hots, right now ass i said, every GCD can give you max, 1 proc. With the change you propose, hots may give from 0 procs to 6. Thats the difference.

So instead of having a skill that gives you back the ap you spent over time when you crit, you have a skill that may give you 8 times the ap you used on it, if you crit with every tick.

Its a huge difference in ap economy, we change from "not using ap" to hhaving ap to spare and more, we can put a hot on two people and spam your most expensive ap spell and you would still not run out of it, without even mentioning Focused mind or the ap drain.

Its a tremendous buff to thhe tactic and remember, shamans are not thhe only class with acess to it.

[Nameless]

wild healing procing from hots is ok, so how is rb, that is considered lesser ap managment tool, "tremendous buff"? I dont really see someone picking AMs over rp/wp cos WH is so great /and it really is/

btw changing rb should be global ofc

[Gobtar]

I am not sure a blanket buff to the tactic would be the way to go. Honestly all I would do is let DSU's dot ticks count for procs. This mitigates the shaman's AP issues and still requires some planning to implement.

[Qwack]

Sulorie loves to argue just to argue it seems. There are many builds that are viable and yours is not optimal, in my opinion. Heal debuff is always welcomed even if it's trash like that shamans. Toughness debuff is not really good when you have aura debuffing about half. Tactic for 100 toughness debuff is not really worth it. It takes off morale of 1 person as opposed to giving your team a morale booster. If I felt like I needed to kite more I'd pick up Run Away instead of divine fury because I don't think SHaman does enough DPS to be giving up so much healing and kiting for 20% damage increase.


http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sha ... 8:;0:0:0:0:

One important thing to consider for Hurt's Don't It is that it drains 150 morale on each hit. Combined with around a 240 toughness debuff (T4) that can be shot considerably outside the range of an aura, I find it to be essential to my DPS spec. Its just above Gorks Barbs in the same line too so it makes double sense to slot it. "Hurts Don't It" is a real tank killer. Drain the bulk of their Morale in 2 hits and 240 toughness... it does indeed hurt.

[bloodi]

wild healing procing from hots is ok, so how is rb, that is considered lesser ap managment tool, "tremendous buff"? I dont really see someone picking AMs over rp/wp cos WH is so great /and it really is/

btw changing rb should be global ofc

I am not really certain Wild healing even procss on hots but lets bite, i think it does but still, wild healing is a 10 seconds buff, so its just matter of using gheal every 10 seconds to assure a proc. And it doesnt give you back the ap you spent, just makes you spend half the ap, you never gain more than you used on it, you never even gain the ap you used thanks to it.

And the fact that is global is even more of a reason to not change it.

I am not sure a blanket buff to the tactic would be the way to go. Honestly all I would do is let DSU's dot ticks count for procs. This mitigates the shaman's AP issues and still requires some planning to implement.

As i said multiple times, you gotta take into account what is feasible to code in the server, i am surely not the guy to ask but i am fairly certain that is at minimum, complicated to do.

Currently imo, the best option is a wild healing mirror for shaman.