Return of Reckoning

Tklees wrote:The abilities ID look at are Nova/ID making them cost 40 instead of building 40 would be a big step. Also add Pyro....surge and artic blast for a cost of 10 it would break up the rotation and give them a few ST ways to blow off steam while soloing instead of dropping it all with meltdown.

Seriously, explain me the thought proccess here.

Pyroclastic surge is a skill that is only ever used to put the disorient on healers, nothing more, its not part of any rotation whatsoever, most of the time is used when there is literally nothing else to do and you want to annoy a healer a bit so you can find a burst window.

Artic blast is a snare, the only one sorc has and its already a worse snare than the Bw equivalent, you are proposing a nerf to a skill with limited use than its already worse than their mirror equivalent.

And to top it of, you call for a nerf in two skills than will not form part of Sorc/Bw rotations till rank 40 and when they do, they are finishers, making it just annoying for them to drop off your combustion but that will be back up to 100 in the next 2 gcds.

I seriously cannot figure where you are coming from, people here seemingly are calling for nerfs just for the sake of it.

bloodi wrote:So no one gave it any thought whatsoever, it was just like "other classes dont have as much crit, i am sure they didnt balance the class around having this much crit, they are not as smart as i am!"

Figured as much.

I believe the common reasoning is that Mythic implemented Trivial Blows purely as a counter to SO/BW +crit damage% values, which began to scale extremely high with their magic crit% chance available between their mechanic, Sov, and KotBS synergy.

It's not revisionist, it was a complaint for a long time on live, and then Trivial Blows debuted. We will not be releasing TB here, as it impacts all classes unevenly and distorts balance heavily. As such, the BW/SO mechanic might need looking into once their power levels approach that same point.

Though that won't be for some time.

Genisaurus wrote:I believe the common reasoning is that Mythic implemented Trivial Blows purely as a counter to SO/BW +crit damage% values, which began to scale extremely high with their magic crit% chance available between their mechanic, Sov, and KotBS synergy.

It's not revisionist, it was a complaint for a long time on live, and then Trivial Blows debuted. We will not be releasing TB here, as it impacts all classes unevenly and distorts balance heavily. As such, the BW/SO mechanic might need looking into once their power levels approach that same point.

Though that won't be for some time.

Trivial blows is a counter to Melee trains, not BW/Sorc. It may be common reasoning but its far from the truth.

At t4, before rr100 was ever in, most classes crit upwards 50% of the time, right now in t3 you already have several classes on 50% crit, crit is not something that belongs to Sorc/Bw, is shared across the board, however Sorc/Bw rely on it to do anything, whatsoever, if you dont crit, you dont kill, period.

This is exactly the kind of thought i am talking about, when you dont look at anything besides the mechanic and try to compare it to everyone else, you just see it gives way too many crit and you dont think further than that.

If you nerf crit bonus and crit damage, you need to rework the class completely, from the ground up, its not about power levels, is about them being designed around having that from the get go, i agree that is poorly designed and the backslash mechanic is worthless but you cannot touch crit and crit damage for BW/Sorc, is simply their viability comes from it.

bloodi wrote:

Genisaurus wrote:I believe the common reasoning is that Mythic implemented Trivial Blows purely as a counter to SO/BW +crit damage% values, which began to scale extremely high with their magic crit% chance available between their mechanic, Sov, and KotBS synergy.

It's not revisionist, it was a complaint for a long time on live, and then Trivial Blows debuted. We will not be releasing TB here, as it impacts all classes unevenly and distorts balance heavily. As such, the BW/SO mechanic might need looking into once their power levels approach that same point.

Though that won't be for some time.

Trivial blows is a counter to Melee trains, not BW/Sorc. It may be common reasoning but its far from the truth.

At t4, before rr100 was ever in, most classes crit upwards 50% of the time, right now in t3 you already have several classes on 50% crit, crit is not something that belongs to Sorc/Bw, is shared across the board, however Sorc/Bw rely on it to do anything, whatsoever, if you dont crit, you dont kill, period.

This is exactly the kind of thought i am talking about, when you dont look at anything besides the mechanic and try to compare it to everyone else, you just see it gives way too many crit and you dont think further than that.

If you nerf crit bonus and crit damage, you need to rework the class completely, from the ground up, its not about power levels, is about them being designed around having that from the get go, i agree that is poorly designed and the backslash mechanic is worthless but you cannot touch crit and crit damage for BW/Sorc, is simply their viability comes from it.

I know/remember that melee trains were always a problem, but it seems odd to me to suggest that a renown ability that cuts bonus critical damage in half would be designed to impair classes doing (at most) 200% damage on a crit, and not the classes doing 250% damage on a crit. With TB, melee classes with a +50% crit damage tactic did 150% damage on a crit, but BW/SO at full mechanic only did 175%.

If it was intended to curb melee trains, then why would it be designed to disproportionately impact BW/SO?

Genisaurus wrote:If it was intended to curb melee trains, then why would it be designed to disproportionately impact BW/SO?

Because melee does a lot more damage than a Bw/sorc will ever do?

Bw/sorc needs 6 seconds or so to do the rotation and needs optimal conditions to burst you down, something like a WE/WH at Sov gear can kill you twice in 6 seconds.

So of course TB hampers melee a lot more, because it should.

We can run the numbers any time you like, melee burst is miles ahead ranged, as it should be.

trivial blows was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) buffs to melee trains - especially medium armor classes - in history of WAR and the funeral for rdps.

bloodi wrote:Because melee does a lot more damage than a Bw/sorc will ever do?

higher risk = higher reward (!)

bw/sorcs do have an easy life if played correct and can always free kill people in every situation nvm if sc or open world.

Bretin wrote:higher risk = higher reward (!)

bw/sorcs do have an easy life if played correct and can always free kill people in every situation nvm if sc or open world.

As long as they are not guarded, healed or use detaunt you mean?

Because if any of those things happen, its not free, at all.

Bretin wrote:trivial blows was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) buffs to melee trains - especially medium armor classes - in history of WAR and the funeral for rdps.

Melee trains were already the best thing before trivial blows ever existed, the only people who were not running melee trains, were running bombing setups with more than 1 group.

bloodi wrote:

Bretin wrote:higher risk = higher reward (!)

bw/sorcs do have an easy life if played correct and can always free kill people in every situation nvm if sc or open world.

As long as they are not guarded, healed or use detaunt you mean?

Because if any of those things happen, its not free, at all.

rdps can't do/have that? and i don't see how a melee in open world can detaunt 20 free casting rdps when he has to deal with the frontline of the enemy realm. he gets pressured by rdps while not being able to pressure back. again: high risk = high reward

Bretin wrote:trivial blows was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) buffs to melee trains - especially medium armor classes - in history of WAR and the funeral for rdps.

see above post. 1.4 was the end of any ranged competing for spots in 6v6 groups and that was due to TB. And yes a WH can kill a squish sorc in 3 GCDs but the sorc can kill a target in 1-2 seconds with their full rotation, its called front end burst and backloaded damage. These are the fundamentals of those two classes. If you are referring to a more group based Scenario a WH should not be killing anything that is healed in "3 seconds", based off your 6 seconds to kill twice post. Nor should a sorc be killing cleansed/healed targets in 1-2 seconds.
This leads me to believe you are suggesting balance around 1v1 is this the case?