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Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 12:43 pm
by salazarn
Krima wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 9:47 am
Please explain further what you think is overpowered (OP), including specific skills, tactics, mechanics, gear. We will evaluate them.
Some of the defensive mechanics are already available to everyone. For example, Parry can be accessed through Renown.
Well I would say def welf is overtuned because it can stack like 700 toughness and still kill stuff with magic dmg and debuffs inc double heal db.
Double jump also probably needs removing. I no longer play my shadow warrior because of double jump well. I go to 35% in opener stun then I die on pounce. The second pounce is thoroughly a meme.
As for WH I play one so i won't comment.
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:37 pm
by lumpi33
Sanctific wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 11:47 am
Skill issue indeed. WE/WH is counterable by literally any career apart from sorc, even BW has some chances (if specced into SD&R).
That is such a lie. No BW will ever win against a decent WE thanks to their pounce and everything else they have in a 1:1 where she opens.
How do you wanna get away from her when you only have root and maybe a short kd. They can break root. The good ones kill you before you can get up from kd after opening.
Im pretty sure a regen WE can kill 2 BWs without big issues.
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:45 pm
by gersy
Pahakukka wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 9:48 am
Please not another one of these...
you were wondering why my opinion of (most) soloers is as it is
"another solo thread"
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:48 pm
by Narfii
lumpi33 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:37 pm
Sanctific wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 11:47 am
Skill issue indeed. WE/WH is counterable by literally any career apart from sorc, even BW has some chances (if specced into SD&R).
That is such a lie. No BW will ever win against a decent WE thanks to their pounce and everything else they have in a 1:1 where she opens.
How do you wanna get away from her when you only have root and maybe a short kd. They can break root. The good ones kill you before you can get up from kd after opening.
Im pretty sure a regen WE can kill 2 BWs without big issues.
Delf is actually sorta weak to magic. The RP matchup specifically actually gets harder going from glass -> def. Yes, it can kill BW fast, but the only countermeasure you have is elixir. Their damage will outpace your regen. So, fighting 1 is fine, but letting another free cast on you will kill you quick.
I love all these takes that portray welf so ubiquitous. Most of them are straight up wrong. Play one and you'll see the niches.
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 2:10 pm
by Sanctific
lumpi33 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:37 pm
Sanctific wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 11:47 am
Skill issue indeed. WE/WH is counterable by literally any career apart from sorc, even BW has some chances (if specced into SD&R).
That is such a lie. No BW will ever win against a decent WE thanks to their pounce and everything else they have in a 1:1 where she opens.
How do you wanna get away from her when you only have root and maybe a short kd. They can break root. The good ones kill you before you can get up from kd after opening.
Im pretty sure a regen WE can kill 2 BWs without big issues.
Regen is actually aint anything useful vs high-dps targets
Also, I said "some" chances, 9k HP BW with below 0 CTBC, armor self buff which negates casting setbacks, close quarters to spam those 2k-ish fireballs slotted AND triple potting with smart usage of detaunt when the situation calls - yeah, im deffo sure BW has some chances
Deffo not a fair fight, but at least it isnt an auto-loss if a BW is prepared for that.
Also, whats up with that attitude "sure loss no matter what" which so many people have? The only thing OP about WE/WH is their ability to reset any fight, but thats about it, the rest of the stuff can be outplayed (well, unless you're a sorc/BW which simply arent designed for such fights i.e. they have an in-built gameplay disadvantage...but as i said, BW at least has slim chances, different from 0%)
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 3:09 pm
by Bozzax
Krima wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 9:47 am
Please explain further what you think is overpowered (OP), including specific skills, tactics, mechanics, gear. We will evaluate them.
Some of the defensive mechanics are already available to everyone. For example, Parry can be accessed through Renown.
1. If it was up to me I'd delete
and
. I won't explain why but they are broken.
2. Revert stealth back to live break on damage
Reason
and
(Don't need to point out that WH isn't equally overplayed. The stuff I listed are broken)
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 3:55 pm
by Krima
salazarn wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 12:43 pm
Krima wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 9:47 am
Please explain further what you think is overpowered (OP), including specific skills, tactics, mechanics, gear. We will evaluate them.
Some of the defensive mechanics are already available to everyone. For example, Parry can be accessed through Renown.
Well I would say def welf is overtuned because it can stack like 700 toughness and still kill stuff with magic dmg and debuffs inc double heal db.
Double jump also probably needs removing. I no longer play my shadow warrior because of double jump well. I go to 35% in opener stun then I die on pounce. The second pounce is thoroughly a meme.
As for WH I play one so i won't comment.
Well, a defensive Welf definitely can't beat a defensive WL or RP, so it's not that easy.
Show me how it's done. Join some group play as a defensive Welf. There's simply not enough burst damage to actually kill anything. Sure, in an open RvR 1v1 scenario with no interference, it might look good. But in scenarios, warbands, ranked, or city sieges, a defensive Welf doesn't bring much to the table.
Even if you remove double jump, your SW would still die against solid WEs. I don't remember a version of this game where I couldn't defeat a lone SW, that's just how it works.
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 4:28 pm
by Sulorie
lumpi33 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:37 pm
Sanctific wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 11:47 am
Skill issue indeed. WE/WH is counterable by literally any career apart from sorc, even BW has some chances (if specced into SD&R).
That is such a lie. No BW will ever win against a decent WE thanks to their pounce and everything else they have in a 1:1 where she opens.
How do you wanna get away from her when you only have root and maybe a short kd. They can break root. The good ones kill you before you can get up from kd after opening.
Im pretty sure a regen WE can kill 2 BWs without big issues.
It's 2026 and you still want to win 1vs1. Maybe some classes are not supposed to win a 1vs1 under normal circumstances, especially when they shine in groups.
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 4:59 pm
by lumpi33
Sanctific wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 2:10 pm
lumpi33 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 1:37 pm
Sanctific wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 11:47 am
Skill issue indeed. WE/WH is counterable by literally any career apart from sorc, even BW has some chances (if specced into SD&R).
That is such a lie. No BW will ever win against a decent WE thanks to their pounce and everything else they have in a 1:1 where she opens.
How do you wanna get away from her when you only have root and maybe a short kd. They can break root. The good ones kill you before you can get up from kd after opening.
Im pretty sure a regen WE can kill 2 BWs without big issues.
Regen is actually aint anything useful vs high-dps targets
Also, I said "some" chances, 9k HP BW with below 0 CTBC, armor self buff which negates casting setbacks, close quarters to spam those 2k-ish fireballs slotted AND triple potting with smart usage of detaunt when the situation calls - yeah, im deffo sure BW has some chances
Deffo not a fair fight, but at least it isnt an auto-loss if a BW is prepared for that.
Also, whats up with that attitude "sure loss no matter what" which so many people have? The only thing OP about WE/WH is their ability to reset any fight, but thats about it, the rest of the stuff can be outplayed (well, unless you're a sorc/BW which simply arent designed for such fights i.e. they have an in-built gameplay disadvantage...but as i said, BW at least has slim chances, different from 0%)
Well it's hard to win vs a class that has the element of surprise, 3s kd, instant disappear with speed, dots that damage you while you move, insane wounds debuff, a m1 that give them immunity to ranged damge, a strong absorb, regen maybe, heal debuffs, pounce with snare, break root, ranged snare with dagger throw and heavy damage. As BW you have literally all odds against you.
Lets be real for a second. The times where BWs could fight WEs are simply over. You might have a chance to kill them when you see them fighting others but even that is only a "might".
The people here are just downplaying how powerful WEs are. Played right you have literally zero chance to win with most classes.
Re: Nerf WH/WE into the ground
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2026 5:08 pm
by lumpi33
Sulorie wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 4:28 pm
It's 2026 and you still want to win 1vs1. Maybe some classes are not supposed to win a 1vs1 under normal circumstances, especially when they shine in groups.
Isn't it a bit odd that they made WEs better for group and warband play but didn't make other classes better for 1:1? WEs perform well in every scenario now while classes like BW are bad in 1:1 and are also kind of bad in instanced group/warband fights like scenarios or cities.
WEs were fine before. They were good in 1:1 and small scale and not so good in warband play. That was the downside of that class. There was no need to make them godly in like every scenario.