Yet another solo QQ thread

[Farrul]

You make some fair points but this one is terrible. I suggest you play White lion( with a pet) and you'll see why ( hint: its bugged to hell- devs have yet to resolve the self-stun upon CC bug which made me quit the class more than a year back).

White Lion Make pet summon stationary like it is to every other pet class. This would force them to pay more attention to pet, and as the pet is huge part of the WL fights, having no major penalty of getting pet destroyed is really giving this class further boost. By no major penalty I mean that in most cases WL can use morale root, cc cleanse, and charge/flee (or both) away and not be caught until they can summon new lion on the run. with the stationary cast there would be choice to be made, continue without pet, or risking having the cast interrupted and getting caught without cat (it could still be summoned easily in fight, just a minor hinderance, and would make the kiting game that much harder)

The penalty( ridiculous and should be lowered to 5 sec) is the 15 second cooldown starting after the pet dies/despawns. Keep in mind this is a melee pet hence it will be in the line of fire more than a ranged pet and so this penalty is extra harsh.

This is really a balance problem outside of the scoop of this discussion. It affects the entire class and is forced to use loner tactic for most the content.

[Pahakukka]

You make some fair points but this one is terrible. I suggest you play White lion( with a pet) and you'll see why ( hint: its bugged to hell- devs have yet to resolve the self-stun upon CC bug which made me quit the class more than a year back).

White Lion Make pet summon stationary like it is to every other pet class. This would force them to pay more attention to pet, and as the pet is huge part of the WL fights, having no major penalty of getting pet destroyed is really giving this class further boost. By no major penalty I mean that in most cases WL can use morale root, cc cleanse, and charge/flee (or both) away and not be caught until they can summon new lion on the run. with the stationary cast there would be choice to be made, continue without pet, or risking having the cast interrupted and getting caught without cat (it could still be summoned easily in fight, just a minor hinderance, and would make the kiting game that much harder)

The penalty( ridiculous and should be lowered to 5 sec) is the 15 second cooldown starting after the pet dies/despawns. Keep in mind this is a melee pet hence it will be in the line of fire more than a ranged pet and so this penalty is extra harsh.

This is really a balance problem outside of the scoop of this discussion. It affects the entire class and is forced to use loner tactic for most the content.

I do have WL, tho low one. The pet topic is super problemtaic as they indeed are bugged like hell, and maybe cant be touched before they are fixed. however I dont see this being much better to nearly any other petclass. SH also loses the pet in 15seconds in wb play, if not due to MSH speedsync problems then to plain aoe damage and has to stop for summon, engi/magus pets wont disappear but tie the character next to them to get any meaningful boost, making them pretty useless in any form of moving combat. Im not sure if there is a way to make any pet to survive the million choppas stomping and channeling. specially when The pull is tied to lion, and even the ST dmg will focus any lion that they see running towards the WB. they would need to be unkillable to make them survive that.

You have to remember this is not call for universal nerfs on all classes, and I am calling for discussions how to tweak these things so it wont affect the group balance of the game. Right now in 1 v 1 what happens is that WL lion comes with leonide frenzy, hits pull or KD and elf leaps right at you, often lion runs just right thro impassable terrain like hills no character can climb into. Then there is the choice if you want to detaunt the elf OR the lion since if you fight back you break the detaunt from another.

The lion toughness has been boosted at some point if I remember right, so it survives a little longer in blobfest, meaning that it takes a bit time to kill in 1v1. Its still viable tactic, but it wont progress the fight against elf at all, and he gets to swing at you freely (which hurts) When you finally kill the lion, elf uses m1 root, cc break and charge and kites you for that 15 s, to pop new lion on the move and rince and repeat.

Now, if you focus on elf, the lion gets freebies, which still hurts, and elf has access to the CC and you still get to chase the elf,when the fight tips against them. Only this time you have the cat on you hitting like a truck and as the most CC comes thro the cat elf does not need to be close for kd making the kiting a menace. This is why I'm suggesting the 2s cooldown as is standard for everything else. It still isnt game breaking for the elf in 1v1, but would force them to make the decision if they want to pop the lion back, OR try to finish the fight without.

I do understand that all pathing etc is extremely problematic in this game when it comes for pets, and thats why I dont really consider them more. There are things like Squig herders spiked squig which is just damn powerful and capable of deleting characters alone when m1+squigfrenzy is up (channeling for 900 pts per hit thro terrain, with the desync position as extreme example)

again, its the solo perspective and more precicely againsy mdps. most ranged will be just fed to the lions anyway

[Pahakukka]

I am suprised we did not get comments on rp/zealot part at all

[Ruin]

White Lion Make pet summon stationary like it is to every other pet class. This would force them to pay more attention to pet, and as the pet is huge part of the WL fights, having no major penalty of getting pet destroyed is really giving this class further boost. By no major penalty I mean that in most cases WL can use morale root, cc cleanse, and charge/flee (or both) away and not be caught until they can summon new lion on the run. with the stationary cast there would be choice to be made, continue without pet, or risking having the cast interrupted and getting caught without cat (it could still be summoned easily in fight, just a minor hinderance, and would make the kiting game that much harder)

I have seen you using SH recently, have you tried using only Melee pets at all for a longer period of time, the pet is so buggy that restricting it's summon, would drastically impair the class IMO?
Also, all other pet classes expect WL, have access to instant summon method, for their “pets”.
And lastly, if I remember correctly, summoning/casting on the move is also available to mSH, maybe there is a restriction to m-pets only can’t remember that.

[coldhunter]

1. Maguses buffs (armor, res, hp) can be dispelled, engins - not.

2. WE kisses has 0.25s cd on proc (if memory servs me well) and they CANT proc from off hand dagger, only from main hand AA or abilitys. WHs bullets dont get any random procs, they has guarantee proc with each finisher (there is tactic which allows bullets proc from 1 ability which has 10sec cd). So when you see some wall of dmg in 1 hit from WE/WH - you probably see a proc from dots+witchbrew+AA+dmg from ability which was used. Its not 10 kisses/bullets in 1 sec. You can see the same wall from magus, for example, if you allow him to dot you fully.
As about weapon procs, well, i dont know what to say if you think that 5% chance for proc is a problem...

3. WLs pet are bugged asf. Sometimes he just disapears when you running on mount, sometime he just stuck somewhere. Instant summon - is a good solution, at least until devs can solve problem with pets buggs.

4. Runes/zeals stagger must have cast time, cutting range dont give anything. Right now a lot of smalls just sending zeal/rp forward and he catch them prey from 100ft like ez, just because his stagger has instant cast.

5. And the last one, stealth. Well, the problem is that glass cannon we/wh are really rely on steath in the start of fight. If you will nerf it - then you will see even less solo (and even less duo) WEs/WH, because it will be very hard for them to kill another soloers without opening. That tones of dmg, which you eat from glass cannon we/wh is actually coming because they can give you stun from the start of combat. Cut this oportunity from them and they will have a really hard times agains any mdps. Which, again, lead them to even more teams up.

[crystl32]

I am suprised we did not get comments on rp/zealot part at all

100ft range, instant, 6 seconds!!! of stagger and only 20 seconds CD.
what about
85ft range, 1 second cast time, 4 seconds stagger and 30 seconds CD?
just to make it look less like a first-draft alpha test ability and more like an ability that has been brought in line with the rest of the game XD

defensive selbuff to reduce damage, buff wounds, selfrez,
can also toss hots, cleanse and rez to support allies around you.
its basically a range dps with better defense and support skills.

and lastly lifetap + selfheal is rediculous, but that's true for all dps healers.
at a certain power level the life you get back is too much and makes them too tanky.
other range dps can only dream of that.

i always advocated for seperating both playstyles but apparently the devs had different plans for those classes.
shruga

[Pahakukka]

White Lion Make pet summon stationary like it is to every other pet class. This would force them to pay more attention to pet, and as the pet is huge part of the WL fights, having no major penalty of getting pet destroyed is really giving this class further boost. By no major penalty I mean that in most cases WL can use morale root, cc cleanse, and charge/flee (or both) away and not be caught until they can summon new lion on the run. with the stationary cast there would be choice to be made, continue without pet, or risking having the cast interrupted and getting caught without cat (it could still be summoned easily in fight, just a minor hinderance, and would make the kiting game that much harder)

I have seen you using SH recently, have you tried using only Melee pets at all for a longer period of time, the pet is so buggy that restricting it's summon, would drastically impair the class IMO?
Also, all other pet classes expect WL, have access to instant summon method, for their “pets”.
And lastly, if I remember correctly, summoning/casting on the move is also available to mSH, maybe there is a restriction to m-pets only can’t remember that.

I was not aware sh had insta cast pet available. I do know there is tactic for no cd. Sorry. In most cases sh uses spiked squig, and in squig armor i could use any as they tend to desync and despawn due to some movement speed bug.

Engi and magus has tactic to insta pop turret, mhiw about similar for others too?

[Ruin]

I was not aware sh had insta cast pet available. I do know there is tactic for no cd. Sorry. In most cases sh uses spiked squig, and in squig armor i could use any as they tend to desync and despawn due to some movement speed bug.

Engi and magus has tactic to insta pop turret, mhiw about similar for others too?

Sh can insta summon pet if he uses "tastes like stunty" or "farty squig".
so it is not guarted and it requires some skill and monitoring of pet health + range.

[Pahakukka]

I was not aware sh had insta cast pet available. I do know there is tactic for no cd. Sorry. In most cases sh uses spiked squig, and in squig armor i could use any as they tend to desync and despawn due to some movement speed bug.

Engi and magus has tactic to insta pop turret, mhiw about similar for others too?

Sh can insta summon pet if he uses "tastes like stunty" or "farty squig".
so it is not guarted and it requires some skill and monitoring of pet health + range.

Those i was aware off. But i dont thin its same thing as summon on the move.

The whole pet dies instantly in wb is odd, as so does every other semi living thing with no guards and heals.

[Ruin]

And lastly, if I remember correctly, summoning/casting on the move is also available to mSH, maybe there is a restriction to m-pets only can’t remember that.

Seems the ability to summon squigs on the move have been removed from mSH.