Return of Reckoning

nat3s wrote: Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:30 pm Fetch is the significantly better pull compared to Mara. It's not the LoS though, its the fact its instant and you can keep moving around / attacking on your WL after using Fetch where Mara sits there for 2s stationary.

In small scale / 1v1 using pull as a Mara is insta death, whereas for a WL, its instant so can be used as an interrupt and you can use other abilities whilst lion is moving.

Its one of the main reasons, alongside the better stun and additional gap closer, as to why WL is just the vastly superior class, at least for more skill centric pvp i.e. 6v6, 1v1 etc.

Thats pretty deranged what you are pointing out here. You can forget to pull with your WL in a zerg / 6v6 situation. The pet is just getting aoe'd down. Claiming the AoE stun is worse than the ST pet stun is wild. Claiming the WL pull is instant is also quite delusional, considering the pet has to reach the target. During that time, you lose 25% of your damage and have to watch out for the lion. Marauder can just walk around while pulling as the WL can, but thats about it. Wild takes all across the board. Smh.

JohnnyWayne wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 1:44 pm

nat3s wrote: Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:30 pm Fetch is the significantly better pull compared to Mara. It's not the LoS though, its the fact its instant and you can keep moving around / attacking on your WL after using Fetch where Mara sits there for 2s stationary.

In small scale / 1v1 using pull as a Mara is insta death, whereas for a WL, its instant so can be used as an interrupt and you can use other abilities whilst lion is moving.

Its one of the main reasons, alongside the better stun and additional gap closer, as to why WL is just the vastly superior class, at least for more skill centric pvp i.e. 6v6, 1v1 etc.

Thats pretty deranged what you are pointing out here. You can forget to pull with your WL in a zerg / 6v6 situation. The pet is just getting aoe'd down. Claiming the AoE stun is worse than the ST pet stun is wild. Claiming the WL pull is instant is also quite delusional, considering the pet has to reach the target. During that time, you lose 25% of your damage and have to watch out for the lion. Marauder can just walk around while pulling as the WL can, but thats about it. Wild takes all across the board. Smh.

The ST stun is superior, it last longer and its not tied to the aoe dps tree for WLs. In a 1v1, that's a significant disadvantage for the Mara.

The WL pull IS instant in terms of the WL presses an instant cast ability. It doesn't go off straight away because of the lion, but that's not the point I'm making, the benefit this provides is you can press it and then resume dps, a Mara casting pull cannot move, cannot attack or use abilities, they are essentially locked in position for 2s doing nothing. Thats HUGE in 1v1 and 6v6 play, massive.

You talk about it like Destro are op and are using their op Mara pulls to stomp every battle. Where in reality, the metrics show Order dominates the rvr lakes and have for years. Take a look at the kill stats:

https://imgur.com/a/0sqUyQU

Which has tilted much further toward Order since the melee rework which I think is a byproduct of Slayers getting back Rampage in a useable form and WH/WL getting hit by the nerf bat far less than WE/Mara.

You are all over the place, claim wrong facts and mix small scale and large scale pvp when it suites your claim. You grasp every straw you can find to make your point. I hope you understand you are wrong about pretty much everything you say. Still claiming a pet dependent stun is better thane an AOE stun of the same duration and still claiming that a marauder can not move during pulling. I have pointed these things out and instead of building an understanding you double down. You know what, I revoke your allowance to post your opinion. I will ignore you.

The nerve of some people, smh.

JohnnyWayne wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 3:50 pm You are all over the place, claim wrong facts and mix small scale and large scale pvp when it suites your claim. You grasp every straw you can find to make your point. I hope you understand you are wrong about pretty much everything you say. Still claiming a pet dependent stun is better thane an AOE stun of the same duration and still claiming that a marauder can not move during pulling. I have pointed these things out and instead of building an understanding you double down. You know what, I revoke your allowance to post your opinion. I will ignore you.

The nerve of some people, smh.

Brutal Pounce is 3s, where Concussive Jolt is 2s. But otherwise yes, you're right on all points.

CeeJay89 wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 4:04 pm

JohnnyWayne wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 3:50 pm You are all over the place, claim wrong facts and mix small scale and large scale pvp when it suites your claim. You grasp every straw you can find to make your point. I hope you understand you are wrong about pretty much everything you say. Still claiming a pet dependent stun is better thane an AOE stun of the same duration and still claiming that a marauder can not move during pulling. I have pointed these things out and instead of building an understanding you double down. You know what, I revoke your allowance to post your opinion. I will ignore you.

The nerve of some people, smh.

Brutal Pounce is 3s, where Concussive Jolt is 2s. But otherwise yes, you're right on all points.

I thought so, but I was too lazy to check. Too much time already invested in this.

nat3s wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 2:03 pm
You talk about it like Destro are op and are using their op Mara pulls to stomp every battle. Where in reality, the metrics show Order dominates the rvr lakes and have for years. Take a look at the kill stats:

https://imgur.com/a/0sqUyQU

not sure if you're serious but filtering by last 4-8 hours is kind of a bad way to demonstrate what you are trying to convey. it's meaningless and misleading. such a small sample size just means one side had more organized warbands in that time frame. looking more realistically at data comprised of past 7, 14, 30 and 90 days it's almost straight up 50/50 or 51/49 at worst.

in 2025 i feel like i shouldn't need to say this but: there is no realistic case of one side dominating from a broad perspective. both sides are relatively equal in balance and what determines the victor, depending on the content and amount of players involved, is typically any combination of organization, numbers or skill. who wins on any given day is typically dictated by which guilds or organized parties are on which side and whether or not they have equal competition to fight against. it isn't about faction or balance. there are many cases of players doing 6v12, 12v24, 18v24, 24v48 fights on both sides and won due to superior organization/group comp/player skill. just a couple months ago in praag our guild 6man (we were playing destro, WE+dps sham comp) fought and wiped an unorganized 24man open pug, they just kept chain rezzing until they got bored of dying and released.

gersy wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2025 8:03 pm
[...] in 2025 i feel like i shouldn't need to say this but: there is no realistic case of one side dominating from a broad perspective. both sides are relatively equal in balance and what determines the victor, depending on the content and amount of players involved, is typically any combination of organization, numbers or skill. who wins on any given day is typically dictated by which guilds or organized parties are on which side and whether or not they have equal competition to fight against. it isn't about faction or balance. there are many cases of players doing 6v12, 12v24, 18v24, 24v48 fights on both sides and won due to superior organization/group comp/player skill. just a couple months ago in praag our guild 6man (we were playing destro, WE+dps sham comp) fought and wiped an unorganized 24man open pug, they just kept chain rezzing until they got bored of dying and released.

Agree with that.