Return of Reckoning

wildwindblows wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 9:33 pm Mara is not needed at all.
İt is not the only class anymore. which have the best armor db.
There are better options.

DPS doks are just a better mara now that they have 1600 armor debuff. The only thing mara has is pull

Xumae wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 11:35 pm

wildwindblows wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 9:33 pm Mara is not needed at all.
İt is not the only class anymore. which have the best armor db.
There are better options.

DPS doks are just a better mara now that they have 1600 armor debuff. The only thing mara has is pull

Yep, it's kind of hilarious the stuff WPs/DoKs have been given.

Xumae wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 11:35 pm

wildwindblows wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 9:33 pm Mara is not needed at all.
İt is not the only class anymore. which have the best armor db.
There are better options.

DPS doks are just a better mara now that they have 1600 armor debuff. The only thing mara has is pull

+dps dok kills the target faster than Mara, and overall the damage is higher.
P.S. Marauder loses 1v1 dps wp almost without a chance.

Reivren27 wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:19 am

Xumae wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 11:35 pm

wildwindblows wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 9:33 pm Mara is not needed at all.
İt is not the only class anymore. which have the best armor db.
There are better options.

DPS doks are just a better mara now that they have 1600 armor debuff. The only thing mara has is pull

+dps dok kills the target faster than Mara, and overall the damage is higher.
P.S. Marauder loses 1v1 dps wp almost without a chance.

Absolutely true, maras need 50% piercing bite back. And even then I think doks will still out damage them. it doesn't apply to auto attacks which is a lot of your damage. Sanguinary Extension while drowning in blood does 1600 dmg baseline btw x) also dont mention 1v1, this game is balanced around 3000vs3000 remember :^)

Xumae wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 4:11 am Absolutely true, maras need 50% piercing bite back. And even then I think doks will still out damage them. it doesn't apply to auto attacks which is a lot of your damage. Sanguinary Extension while drowning in blood does 1600 dmg baseline btw x) also dont mention 1v1, this game is balanced around 3000vs3000 remember :^)

Old 50% Piercing Bite was multiplicative, while new 25% Piercing Bite is additive. This means that as long as you have 50% armor penetration without it, then the new version is better (To be exact: 50% + whatever reduced armor penetration the enemy has). Essentially this was a ST Mara nerf (~38% pen) but an AOE Mara buff (~85% pen).

A few months after that change, Mara received a significant buff to his Brutality stance:

- Gift of Brutality - When affected by the buff of Gift of Brutality, your auto attacks gain 25% armor penetration in addition to its current effects.

That pretty much offset the Piercing Bite change and perhaps buffed Mara ST damage to levels higher than before.
For that claim and for comparison with current ST dwDOK I am not exactly certain since I do not play those specs and I also have not done specific calculations on it.

leftayparxoun wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:02 am

Xumae wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 4:11 am Absolutely true, maras need 50% piercing bite back. And even then I think doks will still out damage them. it doesn't apply to auto attacks which is a lot of your damage. Sanguinary Extension while drowning in blood does 1600 dmg baseline btw x) also dont mention 1v1, this game is balanced around 3000vs3000 remember :^)

Old 50% Piercing Bite was multiplicative, while new 25% Piercing Bite is additive. This means that as long as you have 50% armor penetration without it, then the new version is better (To be exact: 50% + whatever reduced armor penetration the enemy has). Essentially this was a ST Mara nerf (~38% pen) but an AOE Mara buff (~85% pen).

A few months after that change, Mara received a significant buff to his Brutality stance:

- Gift of Brutality - When affected by the buff of Gift of Brutality, your auto attacks gain 25% armor penetration in addition to its current effects.

That pretty much offset the Piercing Bite change and perhaps buffed Mara ST damage to levels higher than before.
For that claim and for comparison with current ST dwDOK I am not exactly certain since I do not play those specs and I also have not done specific calculations on it.

Reason why Piercing Bite 50% In live War was so good because it was working on every attack, even auto attacks. This was bug that was never fixed and made mara POWERFUL. Piercing bite should at least add 35% Armour pene Additive and work on Autoattacks doesnt matter what stance. If Brutality added 25% AA dmg and piercing bite affected AA that would be noticable.

Also Gift of Savagery has close to permanent 505dmg over 5s dot that also reduces AA speed 33%. That alone negates and does more dmg than at the moment Brutality 25% AA armour pene.

leftayparxoun wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:02 am

Xumae wrote: Wed Aug 13, 2025 4:11 am Absolutely true, maras need 50% piercing bite back. And even then I think doks will still out damage them. it doesn't apply to auto attacks which is a lot of your damage. Sanguinary Extension while drowning in blood does 1600 dmg baseline btw x) also dont mention 1v1, this game is balanced around 3000vs3000 remember :^)

Old 50% Piercing Bite was multiplicative, while new 25% Piercing Bite is additive. This means that as long as you have 50% armor penetration without it, then the new version is better (To be exact: 50% + whatever reduced armor penetration the enemy has). Essentially this was a ST Mara nerf (~38% pen) but an AOE Mara buff (~85% pen).

A few months after that change, Mara received a significant buff to his Brutality stance:

- Gift of Brutality - When affected by the buff of Gift of Brutality, your auto attacks gain 25% armor penetration in addition to its current effects.

That pretty much offset the Piercing Bite change and perhaps buffed Mara ST damage to levels higher than before.
For that claim and for comparison with current ST dwDOK I am not exactly certain since I do not play those specs and I also have not done specific calculations on it.

Didn't know that, thanks for the info.

Thanks for all the answers! As far as I can tell, Mara is currently somewhere between S tier and dogshit

Erlingo wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 10:04 pm Thanks for all the answers! As far as I can tell, Mara is currently somewhere between S tier and dogshit

It's S+ tier in 6, 12, 18 and 24mans. Couldn't be any more meta than it already is. Most proper group comps involve one or more marauders. Anyone who says it is "dogshit" has absolutely no clue about the class or more likely the game, sorry to say. You wouldn't see every warband having 2-4+ of them if it was bad. You wouldn't see almost every destro melee scenario and 6v6 comp having one if it was bad.

It is exceptional almost no matter where you put it. Absurd levels of utility (pull, aoe interrupt, aoe KD, aoe ini/ws debuff, ST armor debuff, IHD, wounds debuff, etc.), very tanky for a dps (medium armor, 25% redarpen proc, toughness self buff, low cd detaunt, IHD tactic funnels healing that the target would take to you, etc.) and strong ST and aoe damage.

Does it have downsides? Sure, every class does here and there. Was it more OP in the past? Probably, as it did incur some nerfs here and there. But you're honestly hard pressed to find real downsides with the marauder in the current meta for all that it can offer to a group. Maybe not the most amazing in solo 1v1 content anymore based on what some players say. However 1v1 is not what this game is balanced around and is inherently extreme unbalanced and often boils down to a rocks papers scissors match.

Posting like Maras can take max masteries in all trees and aren't hard handicapped by snares.
Another terrible Gersypost.