Impact of AOE 9-man-cap in PvE

[Akalukz]

so make AoE 24 if unflagged, or put in the PVE tactic for 24 targets.

[Omegus]

What happens if you bring 2 tanks to those PVE situations, as dungeons are to my knowledge designed for 2-2-2 with 1-3-2 (1 tank 3 DPS) being the risky option for those trying to speed run it.

What happens?

1) PVE runs happen less frequently due difficulties finding 2x willing tanks
2) PVE runs last longer

I was asking about the impact on how to clear the content and holding aggro, and #2 was already covered seeing as I mentioned 1-3-2 is the speed run option.

[memesperg]

best thing they can do is lower the hit cap to 9 as it causes healing bloat with any more than 9 so now they can start to tone down healers, you dont need more that 9 even for PvE just cause you want to farm PQ mobs lolz

[Kolyarut]

I started in early July, have maxed out my gear and influence from each for a while now, and I've literally never seen a 2/2/2 group form for the CR40 dungeons. 90% have been 1 tank, 3 DPS, 2 healers, a couple have been 1 tank, 4 DPS, 1 healers, and we did a 4 DPS 2 healer Gunbad run once, but if we waited for a second tank to come available each time literally none of those runs would have ever happened.

I'm not sure the 2008 design intent is relevant at all in light of the 2024 reality.

[Omegus]

I started in early July, have maxed out my gear and influence from each for a while now, and I've literally never seen a 2/2/2 group form for the CR40 dungeons. 90% have been 1 tank, 3 DPS, 2 healers, a couple have been 1 tank, 4 DPS, 1 healers, and we did a 4 DPS 2 healer Gunbad run once, but if we waited for a second tank to come available each time literally none of those runs would have ever happened.

I'm not sure the 2008 design intent is relevant at all in light of the 2024 reality.

This is not the 2008 design intent, this is also what the ROR devs went for when adding the dungeons back in over the years. I too have run all of the dungeons with an over-geared solo tank and trivially ignored the mechanics (not sure I would ever want to try 1-4-1 but the NPC/boss damage numbers might be much lower now since the reworks) but that doesn't mean that it the current dungeons were designed for 1-3-2 or 1-4-1. 1-3-2 or 1-4-1 might be one of those things that works by chance rather than by design.

The dungeons have been implemented twice by the ROR devs - the original versions over the years and then again as part of the new ability system over the past 6-8 months ish. I have not tried the new versions yet to see what the damage is like but for the pre-ability system you could get away with 1 very over geared tank but much less than that and you needed 2 tanks for a lot of the fights, even if it was 1 main tank and 1 off-tank.

[Kolyarut]

The dungeons have been implemented twice by the ROR devs - the original versions over the years and then again as part of the new ability system over the past 6-8 months ish. I have not tried the new versions yet to see what the damage is like but for the pre-ability system you could get away with 1 very over geared tank but much less than that and you needed 2 tanks for a lot of the fights, even if it was 1 main tank and 1 off-tank.

That's very much not the case any more. A group with an appropriate gear level (i.e. reasonably geared but still need items from that dungeon) is absolutely fine with a solo tank. Most healers are able to keep a DPS alive if they do wind up tanking for a while (or even through most of the fight). There are two fights in Bastion Stair where things can get a little rough temporarily that were clearly designed with two tanks in mind, but in both cases the lack of a third DPS makes the fights harder. Longer fights = slower add kills = more boss mechanics to dodge = everyone struggles harder.

[Rotgut]

Generally speaking, I feel an utter discomfort with the recent patches made in the last year, as they give me heavily the impression that the changes seem to lack quality guidelines, a multiperspective approach, and the foresight of the effects on the whole system, eventually cascading into other content, such as PvE, without intention – or not solving the problem they were meant to solve while adding new ones.

This applies to everything within this project and its just clear how badly managed it is. It never even had a Director. I don't know if you went for a polite, corporate approach there with your choice of words, but "impression" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your sentence.

It feels like something the Devs want to have in their resumé and nothing else. Its not a passion project.

[trh382]

What happens if you bring 2 tanks to those PVE situations, as dungeons are to my knowledge designed for 2-2-2 with 1-3-2 (1 tank 3 DPS) being the risky option for those trying to speed run it.

What happens?

1) PVE runs happen less frequently due difficulties finding 2x willing tanks
2) PVE runs last longer

I was asking about the impact on how to clear the content and holding aggro, and #2 was already covered seeing as I mentioned 1-3-2 is the speed run option.

You are commenting on PVE without any actual knowledge of how it has functioned since the ability rework

1-4-1 is standard since new GB and 1-3-2 is standard for BS. 1-3-2 is the "safe" option that you are talking about.

5-1 with no tank is the speedrun option for some GB groups and 1-4-1 is the BS speed run option.

[zulnam]

This feels like another classic example of the sea of spinning plates that is RoR (24 classes, 72 masteries, mass scale pvp, solo pvp, small scale pvp, pve).

I imagine little thought (if any) was given to pve when the revert to 9 target AoE was made (not without reason, this is a pvp game primarily after all).

At the same time, for what dungeons are in this game (just a catch up system for new characters) they have been historically (imo) ludicrously difficult affairs.

It doesn't help that role-specific gear sets are locked to specific activities. For tanks and healers the support set (tank/heal) is gained from PvP while the DPS set is gained, ironically, from PvE.

Instead of adding yet another spinning plate to the equasion (lets give players incentive to run the dungeons), i propose a tweak in the other direction. Make them piss easy.

Reduce boss adds, reduce boss HP and damage, the whole works. Turn them into a true form of what they were always meant to be: a catch up system that new characters will run a couple of times and then never run again.

I know some people will not like this change, but they must understand that the PvE crowd in RoR is a miniscule minority. (try forming a GB group from scratch in less than 10 minutes; hell, any dungeon)

[Aluviya]

I know some people will not like this change, but they must understand that the PvE crowd in RoR is a miniscule minority. (try forming a GB group from scratch in less than 10 minutes; hell, any dungeon)

Can't agree more to this with the current population and incentives set.