Tone down the Meta Procs

[Zxul]

1. We should focus on the procs, by increasing their ICD to 1.5sc (GCD).

Interesting, so after all the nerfs which doks got, people are still looking for more, nice.

[Rotgut]

I worry that just tweaking numbers might not be enough, and it can lead to boring gameplay. I prefer balance around distinct "timings" for each Faction.

It is the one thing about the old Rampage that i miss. Its good that it got nerfed cuz it made more classes viable, and it was the same old gameplay for years, but it did impose a timing to battles that made both faction very distinct.

Destro would start battles stronger, then Order would have its timing when Rampage was up, then Destro would again have the upperhand with its faster Morales. Now both factions do all their dmg upfront and come back later with Morales (which Destro gets a lot faster).

Proc Meta made this less painful for Order cuz its so much dmg that you're more likely to actually win battles on first contact. If you just tweak those proc numbers, making it so less battles will be decided on contact, without giving Order some timing to hit before Destro's morale drop, then it **** up balance. And i don't think the answer is "remove Destro's faster morales" either, it would equalize things too much. There has to be something that functions as "macro calls" that good WBs can play around, otherwise its just a stats and player numbers game.

[CyunUnderis]

1. We should focus on the procs, by increasing their ICD to 1.5sc (GCD).

Interesting, so after all the nerfs which doks got, people are still looking for more, nice.

This is not only about the DoK. I know that he is not in a good spot as a healer right now and I totally agree on the fact that, with the WP, they should get some love but we don't know yet what the Balance Team wants to do with the healer archetype.

I think this is sad to play a DoK/WP and to be only a buff bot. To me, this is his current state.

[Scottx125]

All I see from this is that my WP buffs aren't as good as BW buffs. Buff me!

But seriously good post, I think what really needs to be looked at is what can and should actually proc auras/buffs. Then see if that needs to be limited/changed and if the buffs themselves need to be limited. I think buff damage contributing to 5-15% of total damage is fine, as that buff will trigger on most attacks. But if it's 50-60% that's way to strong.

[CyunUnderis]

Procs bad blah blah nerf it... (I know overexaggerated thats not my point)

This is great writeup and the procs are indeed in strong place but there is one issue atleast for shield dok, you loose most of your damage if you remove BT + PC, or atleast you loose ~35% of damage you output, if you nerf the damage you nerf the pressure of sdok, if you lower the chance you also nerf it. Nerf of proc also means the nerf of the rend soul damage output since you will not proc the same amount. And at certain loss of pressure you might even just play chalice.

I can't really speak about S/B DoK because I don't play one (I played against some in 6v6 and with one sometime in 6v6/SC), so I appreciate your feedback on it.

To me, S/B healers is hard to balance because you want it to be a decent healer and to bring good pressure. Too much pressure and too much healing power and you have a too strong healer that brings too much to his team compare to other healer (AM/Shaman are not really worth anymore in 6v6 for example, but decent in 12v12 SC).

To be honest, I also think that S/B healers needs to be nerf, especially on the life-part, but this is another story and I didn't spend too much time on this matter.

Rend Soul hit 4 times in 3 sc, so it is 1 hit when you hit the spell and then 1 each second, isn't it ? If that's the case, increasing the ICD of CoC to 1 sc should still bring the same amount of damage. Maybe 1.5s ICD is too much.

[Zxul]

This is not only about the DoK. I know that he is not in a good spot as a healer right now and I totally agree on the fact that, with the WP, they should get some love but we don't know yet what the Balance Team wants to do with the healer archetype.

I think this is sad to play a DoK/WP and to be only a buff bot. To me, this is his current state.

Its not about heal dok, its about gutting the dmg of dps dok.

Rend Soul hit 4 times in 3 sc, so it is 1 hit when you hit the spell and then 1 each second, isn't it ? If that's the case, increasing the ICD of CoC to 1 sc should still bring the same amount of damage. Maybe 1.5s ICD is too much.

Yep, however its does very much nerfs the rest of dok's dmg except Rend, like say combination of abilities and aa proccing CoC very likely within same 1 sec, or say Devour Essence signature dps dok ability. So extra nice, you made the post not only with idea which would make dok do deftard tank lvls of dmg, but you also have no idea how the class actually works.

[Dackjanielz]

i think they really need to "de couple" the healing on strikes for SNB healers, it comes with so many problems, on the one hand it can be very strong in smaller scale engagements but it can also be very easily shut off.

Activate a parry ability or crowd control and suddenly that healer has gone from hero to zero.

Also its a very stressful style of gameplay imo, while your spamming it to keep you and your group alive you simply don't have time n space to do any other ability.

Prayer of devotion imo should quite simply be a HOT that never ceases, every 4s you get X amount of HP for your group. Then the WP can concentrate on doing other things like deploying buffs/debuffs etc....ye know, bashing people round the head as was intended.

[CyunUnderis]

This is not only about the DoK. I know that he is not in a good spot as a healer right now and I totally agree on the fact that, with the WP, they should get some love but we don't know yet what the Balance Team wants to do with the healer archetype.

I think this is sad to play a DoK/WP and to be only a buff bot. To me, this is his current state.

Its not about heal dok, its about gutting the dmg of dps dok.

Rend Soul hit 4 times in 3 sc, so it is 1 hit when you hit the spell and then 1 each second, isn't it ? If that's the case, increasing the ICD of CoC to 1 sc should still bring the same amount of damage. Maybe 1.5s ICD is too much.

Yep, however its does very much nerfs the rest of dok's dmg except Rend, like say combination of abilities and aa proccing CoC very likely within same 1 sec, or say Devour Essence signature dps dok ability. So extra nice, you made the post not only with idea which would make dok do deftard tank lvls of dmg, but you also have no idea how the class actually works.

Like I said, I don't play DoK as a DPS or S/B so I don't know, that's why I appreciate good feedbacks from DoK players on this. You don't need to be condescending to explain your point, because I can also be and we won't move the discussion in the good direction.

If we can't/don't want to turn down the DPS of DoK, for the small population that play DPS or S/B DoK, we can make the boost of damage from the tactic for CoC to the DoK only. If I remember correctly, it was the same for BW and its tactics where Crown of Fire (75% chance to be applied) works only for him (before Ability Rework patch).

[CyunUnderis]

i think they really need to "de couple" the healing on strikes for SNB healers, it comes with so many problems, on the one hand it can be very strong in smaller scale engagements but it can also be very easily shut off.

Activate a parry ability or crowd control and suddenly that healer has gone from hero to zero.

Also its a very stressful style of gameplay imo, while your spamming it to keep you and your group alive you simply don't have time n space to do any other ability.

Prayer of devotion imo should quite simply be a HOT that never ceases, every 4s you get X amount of HP for your group. Then the WP can concentrate on doing other things like deploying buffs/debuffs etc....ye know, bashing people round the head as was intended.

I appreciate your point of view on this, but this is not the subject of the post. So if you want to talk about S/B healers, make another thread please. Thanks.

[tazdingo]

100% agreed, unmitigable procs are vestigial nonsense