Return of Reckoning

Telen wrote:I dont see the point on working on its skill trees when half the abilities/tactics would never be used.

Choppas AoE tree comes to mind

Telen wrote:Have you and the other devs discussed what you want in that regard.

Current opinion leads towards not making changes until T4.

At one point I agreed with that, but right now, I don't. The argument goes that we do not have the T4 meta, and thus changes we make now may not be the correct ones. That's valid for minor adjustments. But for the matter of major class design flaws such as (to use Swordmaster as an example) all of the abilities in the Vaul tree (either by position or uselessness), Phoenix's Wing and Sapping Strike, which we already know are serious problems, I do not see the point of waiting until T4 to rectify such issues. There are skills and tactics in the game that nobody will EVER use, no matter what the meta is, as opposed to skills and tactics that are destroyed by T4 specific issues such as aggressive stat stacking, damage inflation and a terrible system for handling potion buffs. They should be fixed ASAP.

Telen wrote:Personally I dont see the point in reproducing the parts of war that even the last live devs were trying to rework. Is it worth spending time working on skills that are meaningless.

Agreed. These skills take a while to do, and I do not relish the idea that my work on some of them only serves to satisfy completeness.

Telen wrote:Why not start from where the live devs were heading and rework the sm/bo, then the wl then onto the others as they were intending. The devs had taken a community vote and were reworking them in the order the community voted. The White Lion is the prime suspect of various worthless skills in all of its trees. I dont see the point on working on its skill trees when half the abilities/tactics would never be used.

Well, you wouldn't find me objecting. Taking the approach of making skills / tactics usable as we encounter them going up until T4, while keeping T4 meta in mind as we do so, seems a better approach.

Azarael wrote:

Telen wrote:Have you and the other devs discussed what you want in that regard.

Well, you wouldn't find me objecting. Taking the approach of making skills / tactics usable as we encounter them going up until T4, while keeping T4 meta in mind as we do so, seems a better approach.

Given the sensible and balanced approach to the game's ressurection thus far, and the devs actually having in-game experience as opposed to Mythics mathhammer/theoryhammer approach, I'd say that I agree

One word of caution though is that fixes/things that may seem balanced (and by this I mean not particularly OP) in T2 may combine with in unexpected ways when future ability/tactics/buffs (AA haste and Trivial Blows I'm looking at you)/etc come in and may need a re-adjustment. It only becomes a problem if you have no-xp books/perpetually active lower tiers and want the same ability/tactic/buff to be balanced simultaneously in all tiers. That being said - the game is in alpha, so we should expect changes anyway

I'd also like to add, that 2x rKD on Order and none on Destro has _ever_ been balanced, and have never understood any argument it was

Thundermare wrote:Honestly. It's an alpha stage of the game. Why we're forced to pay (a lot) for respec our mastery skills if our task here is to test evertything......
Could we possibly remove the cost of respec?

agree !

Azarael wrote:

Telen wrote:Why not start from where the live devs were heading and rework the sm/bo, then the wl then onto the others as they were intending. The devs had taken a community vote and were reworking them in the order the community voted. The White Lion is the prime suspect of various worthless skills in all of its trees. I dont see the point on working on its skill trees when half the abilities/tactics would never be used.

Well, you wouldn't find me objecting. Taking the approach of making skills / tactics usable as we encounter them going up until T4, while keeping T4 meta in mind as we do so, seems a better approach.

As a long time WL player, I would love to see changes in WL's trees (ie Stalker or Threatening Distraction tactics). But on the other hand, wouldn't be better if devs will focus on developing the game as a whole? Getting close to functionality of original WAR (at least in it's PvP and RvR regards)? After that, polishing and fixing what's wrong is of course in place.

Is t4 meta REALLY the one you want? It was so imba with so many classes sidelined and considred "useless" full of nothing but zergs or 1v1 dueling if nothing else atleast implement 1.49 you said your self tha this is a test bed so why wait till t4 to try blorc's grp armor buff?

Coryphaus wrote:Is t4 meta REALLY the one you want? It was so imba with so many classes sidelined and considred "useless" full of nothing but zergs or 1v1 dueling if nothing else atleast implement 1.49 you said your self tha this is a test bed so why wait till t4 to try blorc's grp armor buff?

better to actually have stuff working than taking longer getting to t4 bc ppl want reworked skills.

Kaitanaroyr wrote:

Coryphaus wrote:Is t4 meta REALLY the one you want? It was so imba with so many classes sidelined and considred "useless" full of nothing but zergs or 1v1 dueling if nothing else atleast implement 1.49 you said your self tha this is a test bed so why wait till t4 to try blorc's grp armor buff?

better to actually have stuff working than taking longer getting to t4 bc ppl want reworked skills.

By the time we have t4 there will be camelot unchained. As the closest thing we have to daoc2 it will be ALOT better than wars t4 meta mess. No one is going to want to play that then.

I like the nostalgia of the server but even now I know I wouldnt likely play the old t4 for long. There are already better balanced fights in other games to go for.

Xaun wrote:I'd also like to add, that 2x rKD on Order and none on Destro has _ever_ been balanced, and have never understood any argument it was

https://web.archive.org/web/20090410160 ... px?id=8412