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Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:01 pm
by Jinxypie
Thats on purpose, so you order sometimes stretch your legs after all that BOs and wall sitting.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:16 pm
by anarchypark
you're only seeing disadvantage *after* picking up the flag. which rarely done same time. ( it did sometimes though )
but you have to run to enemy base.
have you considered that time ?
maybe order can reach there faster than destro. I haven't tested it.
or you can snare carrier.
so many things can be done during run.
That's the concept of this SC.
steal-run-stop
surely you know this style from fps games.
maybe flag move create another bias.
maybe they think it's not big deal.
maybe they just forgot.
anyway don't act like it's sky falling problem.
squishy tanks are more pressing matter imo.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:17 pm
by Ysaran
Lithenir wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:00 pm
Ysaran wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:39 pm
Lithenir wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:29 pm
There is a difference between the mechanics in gromrill crossing and in phoenix gate.
If you have a timewise disadvantage in a capture the flag mechanic it's quite unfair.
This "disadvantage" in phoenix gate is no disadvantage at all. This weekend I have seen mutliple reasons why order lost the phoenix gate, neither really had to do with this reason.
Order is simply too stupid to play this sc. No map awareness, no general idea how to play this sc, noone watching for the flag or the carrier to defend in even fights, sometimes no logical thinking, people missing understanding of general mechanics.
Although your goal shouldn't be to take the flag to the bridge, bringing it to homebase gives around 120 points if I counted right + the points that tick while holding it. But for this you need to dominate destro and kind of guard the own flag. Yesterday I saw that order heavily lacks knowledge and understanding in this part. But sure blame it on this meaningless "disadvantage"
Most ppl don't even know you can give in flag at bridge
True.
Also there are people who don't know that you can take in the flag at the bridge only if both flags are picked up.
Saw a BO yesterday trying desperately to take the flag in at the bridge for like 30 secs without order having destros flag.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:07 pm
by Meliannia
Sulorie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:22 pm
Like all reports they have to be sent to the bug tracker.
All measurements aside, when does it matter?
It's not like both sides take the other flag uncontested and then only have to run to the bridge.
This matters almost every single game
Both sides often get the flag at same time especially at the start of the game
id say in every 50 phoenix gate i play both sides take the flag within 15 secs of each others an average of 1 to 2 times per game every game, yes some games its so one sided no one takes flag, and sometimes its so close and people going for flags with no defence it happens 4 or 5 times per game, but 1 or 2 times per game every game is the average.
as i said a white lion can be alone no destro attacking her , take the flag, and use Charge and Flee and even pounce when near bridge and she will still not get to the bridge as quick as a lumbering black orc who picks up the flag AFTER the white lion. It's a 50 to 100 point bias to destro almost every single scenario and it needs resolving.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:23 pm
by Sulorie
Meliannia wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:07 pm
as i said a white lion can be alone no destro attacking her , take the flag, and use Charge and Flee and even pounce when near bridge and she will still not get to the bridge as quick as a lumbering black orc who picks up the flag AFTER the white lion. It's a 50 to 100 point bias to destro almost every single scenario and it needs resolving.
So nobody puts a snare on the BO or is the BO alone as well, which should be highly unlikely.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:26 pm
by teiloh
Sulorie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:23 pm
Meliannia wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:07 pm
as i said a white lion can be alone no destro attacking her , take the flag, and use Charge and Flee and even pounce when near bridge and she will still not get to the bridge as quick as a lumbering black orc who picks up the flag AFTER the white lion. It's a 50 to 100 point bias to destro almost every single scenario and it needs resolving.
So nobody puts a snare on the BO or is the BO alone as well, which should be highly unlikely.
That's not the point. If you recall, snares also work on White Lions.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:30 pm
by Sulorie
teiloh wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:26 pm
Sulorie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:23 pm
Meliannia wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:07 pm
as i said a white lion can be alone no destro attacking her , take the flag, and use Charge and Flee and even pounce when near bridge and she will still not get to the bridge as quick as a lumbering black orc who picks up the flag AFTER the white lion. It's a 50 to 100 point bias to destro almost every single scenario and it needs resolving.
So nobody puts a snare on the BO or is the BO alone as well, which should be highly unlikely.
That's not the point. If you recall, snares also work on White Lions.
The stated example, if you recall correctly, was about a WL, supposedly sneaking to destro spawn and picking flag alone. This only happens, when destro is pushing towards order flag. It would have been a total loop-sided wipe, if nobody is able to slow down the flag carrier.
In this case, I as a player on order side would have other things to worry about than some distances between flags.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:29 pm
by Martok
Phoenix Gate suffers from a poorly designed map overall.
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:37 pm
by Foltestik
dont take flag and fight .. easy
Re: Phoenix Gate scenario, biased for destro, why never fixed?
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:00 pm
by Sulorie
Foltestik wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:37 pm
dont take flag and fight .. easy
Don't be so toxic.
