Return of Reckoning

Isn´t the mobility/counter to mobility of Mara and SW comparable? SW has shadowstep and whirling pin, Mara charge, terrible embrace and m1. Both kind of snare/root break. I think they are comparable. WL and SH are on a totally different lvl.

mara don't need mobility because they do not face opponents who have run away in tactics or abilities

SW, WL fight vs gob not the mara

Everdin wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:49 pm I agree with you, just remove utility and give marauder more damage.

Well in a small scale setting the mara doesn't have that more utility compared to other classes, and tbh I wouldn't mind if GoM was changed.

Mergrim wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:53 pm

wildwindblows wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:31 pm Hello Theoddone,

I'm playing this game almost 5 years. My main is mara so I can say that mara was really nice before the 2018 nerfs. Maybe it was too OP and nerf was needed. However, this class nerfed to the ground and this made it unplayable. In 2020, finally we got a few adjastments but still mara is weak a bit compared to other dps classes. Yes, mara has heal db but cost of this is very high and only can be used in one stance. This means, we cannot use heal db in brut and monstro stances. Same scenario is valid for armor db. If mara get cd increase db in any other stance, this broke the class mechanic. Swap dancing is everything for mara to be efficient. Maybe cd increase db should effect the stance skills. And yes, I think mara's damage is still low compared to any other dps class but, I learned to do not compare classes in this 5 years. (Dert mi çekiyoruz, oyun mu oynuyoruz? ) I totally agree with you, and I just want to add my concern about this class. I stopped to create marauder topics because nobody listens and all topics I created were ruined by order fans.

Cheers Master

This is joke? Mara is most broken class in game and should be nerfed. What is point to play choppa? when you got better single target, better aoe dmg and survi x10?
Nerf mara/squig/wl/sw. Class like wl/mara should never done more dmg then slayer/choppa. Same sw/squig vs bw/sorc.

An equally geared BiS choppa should outdmg a mara in a small scale setting.

MMXX43 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:14 pm Mara has great escape tools that can be turned into offensive mobility , giving more speed to an alreay overstacked kitting and utility realm + great damage on mara is just way out of balance.

Mara is in a good place if you push for a change , it should be a nerf .

What are these unique great escape tools? There are charge and root-break. If you look at the video these tools have to be used a lot to negate the punts. Also rootbreak+charge still can't compete offensively with the leap abilities that sh, wl, and asw have. To repeat myself, even with charge and rootbreak you can see the mara coming from miles away.

jughurta wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:20 pm i never laught so much, low damage mara ????
Mara have the biggest melee burst ST in the game ( i have mara 85+) and that's why there is no stun in full st

Never said mara has low dmg, but in a 6v6 setting, it will get outdmged by a lot of dps classes while having significantly less mobility and not that more utility. I don't agree that mara has the biggest mdps burst in the game. However, the burst can be alright, but like mentioned earlier, it's difficult to catch targets off guard when your opponent can see it coming a mile away. What's your 85+ mara called btw?

Mergrim wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:23 pm Can you show me any screen when choppa outdps mara or melle squig on city?.
Got few idea how balance marauder.
Wrecking Ball dmg x2, change it hit only 1 times in sec. Cd from 13sec to 20sec.
Tactic Piercing Bite:50% ignore, it's like 700ws?, make it 25% max. Why?...sw got 25% ignore tactic for only skrimish skill, we/wh got 7sec buff 50% ignore(60sec cd), and mara got 50% in 1 tactic...

If you haven't noticed yet, the thread is not about city or aoe spec. Funny that you mentioned PB and ws. How much WS does a BiS ASW usually have combined with their other armor pen ignore tools?

Arbich wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:58 pm Isn´t the mobility/counter to mobility of Mara and SW comparable? SW has shadowstep and whirling pin, Mara charge, terrible embrace and m1. Both kind of snare/root break. I think they are comparable. WL and SH are on a totally different lvl.

If we are going to compare the classes I think it's better to look at the four classes as a cluster because there is so much overlap of abilities between them. Look at everything the wl has gotten from the mara over the years. If we are gonna compare SW to mara, I would very much like core VoN and the same stance buffs. But comparing mobility it looks like this unless I forgot something:
WL: charge, rootbreak, pounce, m1, fetch.
SW: shadowstep, selfpunt, and movementspeed on stance swap (not updated on how this works tho so might be unfair to include it.
SH: Everything on planet earth.
Mara: Charge, rootbreak, M1, pull.
Mara got hit the hardest by the m1 nerf due to not having pounce. It's clear that mara has the worst mobility, but what does it get compared to these classes to compensate single target wise?

Everdin wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:49 pm I agree with you, just remove utility and give marauder more damage.

Pretty sure we've already been through that one, with the monstro rework, in spring of this year.

theoddone wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:58 pm If we are going to compare the classes I think it's better to look at the four classes as a cluster because there is so much overlap of abilities between them. Look at everything the wl has gotten from the mara over the years. If we are gonna compare SW to mara, I would very much like core VoN and the same stance buffs. But comparing mobility it looks like this unless I forgot something:
WL: charge, rootbreak, pounce, m1, fetch.
SW: shadowstep, selfpunt, and movementspeed on stance swap (not updated on how this works tho so might be unfair to include it.
SH: Everything on planet earth.
Mara: Charge, rootbreak, M1, pull.
Mara got hit the hardest by the m1 nerf due to not having pounce. It's clear that mara has the worst mobility, but what does it get compared to these classes to compensate single target wise?

so in numbers
WL 5
SW 3
Mara 4
SH All

dosent look to bad to me when you keep in mind Mara have not to hunt down SH and Shammys. And in the end just "one" less then WL in compare to much more utility like aoe knockdown and stuff like Toughness debuff.
By putting Mara on the same level like Wl would make its like -> Destro best in mobility by SH and Mara + Destro best in escape by SH and Shammy by run away and so on.
The fact that Mara is at the end of the list in mobility or looks a bit off is just the result of the huge mobility buff of the SH.

if u play mara vs pounce/kite grp in ranked
u will know what theoddone means, 80% of time ur just trying to catch up to the target.

knick wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:10 pm

theoddone wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:58 pm If we are going to compare the classes I think it's better to look at the four classes as a cluster because there is so much overlap of abilities between them. Look at everything the wl has gotten from the mara over the years. If we are gonna compare SW to mara, I would very much like core VoN and the same stance buffs. But comparing mobility it looks like this unless I forgot something:
WL: charge, rootbreak, pounce, m1, fetch.
SW: shadowstep, selfpunt, and movementspeed on stance swap (not updated on how this works tho so might be unfair to include it.
SH: Everything on planet earth.
Mara: Charge, rootbreak, M1, pull.
Mara got hit the hardest by the m1 nerf due to not having pounce. It's clear that mara has the worst mobility, but what does it get compared to these classes to compensate single target wise?

so in numbers
WL 5
SW 3
Mara 4
SH All

dosent look to bad to me when you keep in mind Mara have not to hunt down SH and Shammys. And in the end just "one" less then WL in compare to much more utility like aoe knockdown and stuff like Toughness debuff.
By putting Mara on the same level like Wl would make its like -> Destro best in mobility by SH and Mara + Destro best in escape by SH and Shammy by run away and so on.
The fact that Mara is at the end of the list in mobility or looks a bit off is just the result of the huge mobility buff of the SH.

The sh and shammy argument goes both ways. A marauder have to chase pouncing targets all over. Leap can be used defensively as well. Also, you didn't notice I wrote single target, aka no aoe knockdown, which is useless in small scale anyway. There are so many toughness debuffs and the mara one doesn't benefit from PB either.
Basically, you are saying that marauder drew the short stick and has to suffer because of SH and realm balance? What does the marauder get in return?

jughurta wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:20 pm i never laught so much, low damage mara ????
Mara have the biggest melee burst ST in the game ( i have mara 85+) and that's why there is no stun in full st

This reply said a lot... about you to be honest (not about mara).

To Theoddone:
Mara, I agree that mara needs something to add. But how dare you write about it on the forum? How dare you to mention mara AND WL in one topic (even in one post)? Damn it! You are asking for a nerf man!
xD

Jokes aside.
I copy one my older post to old mara thread - we talked about stance dancing as a nice mechanic with a big potential, but... only if it is not very rewarding.
"I agree.It is not very rewarding to switch stances and you realy have to calculate if it is necessary to switch stance. The example of feral druid is realy good example here. Same as warrior in WOW which was my main char for years. You hardly could be a good pvp war without stance dancing (defensive stance with spell reflect especially). Back to RoR. Switching stances as mara... I find it more punishing as rewarding sometimes and this mechanic here in RoR looks not very refined. What about to make stance bonuses last for aditional 5 sec. after stance switch? For example if I switch from savagery to monstro I will have a gift of savagery for 5 sec even in monstro and vice versa. For these 5 seconds I won't lose my monstro gift. Additionally I could have 2 gifts for these 5 seconds during the CD for switching stances. It could bring new possibilities for gameplay and more joy to make stance dancing instead of prevent it. Why not? This mechanic has a potential and I think it will be small (not very hard to implement maybe) but very beneficial change when it comes to new gameplay possibilities.

Edit: or reduce the CD to 1 or 2 sec. As someone mentioned later."

I know that this is not a solution to mobility, but it looks like antidestro players are getting enrage everytime some1 dares to ask for some new utility for mara... because destru has shamans.

Just a thought,
But isn't the issue more so that too much mobility was added to the other mdps builds in that four class cluster and that leaves mara appear behind in the comparison?

It's not like sorc, bw, engi Magus got handed additional tools to keep the distance, more leaps and stickingpower was just slowly added to some melee builds to catch the backliners.

In a world were pounce had shorter range and only tanks could M1 root, the mara mobility wouldn't seem too far behind I guess. And melee DPS would still have archetype tools to catch backliners

Just add pounce to mara and delete order I am done with this game