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Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:28 am
by porkstar
WL don’t have a ranged punt yet so there’s that.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:32 am
by adamthelc
I dont agree that its obvious it needs to be fixed. Its an anti kiting tool, that doesn't seem that crazy.
The problem with this game is that it wasn't originally designed with so much anti kiting tools in mind. Rdps don't really have kits to fight it effectively. Too many gap closers, not enough gap makers.
They should really consider adding stuff like blinks or teleports on rdps. I am not a huge fan of that, since it's very different than the original game. But if you are going to tinker with the original game you have to be prepared to fix the issues your tinkering causes.
So by itself I dont think these M1 are a huge problem, but they are a part of a greater problem. Which is out of date kiting tools vs more up to date gap closers/antikiting tools.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:47 am
by Stophy22
Dont propose a change without addressing the mirror/other side. Flames of Fate is balanced out with Ensnare on WL. Not saying the ability is balanced but it has the same ability on the other side, so complaining and sayings its overpowered without addressing its direct mirror of an ability is plain ignorance.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 4:52 am
by Darks63
Just be grateful it can be broken by ability snarebreakers since its a morale.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:28 am
by Fey
Leave it be and give an identical spell to SW at 100 ft. SW obviously needs love and I'm not a fan of the constant morale nerf creep. Morale abilities should be potent.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:32 am
by Caduceus
amagawd wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:57 pm
1) I use Confusing Movements and still kill ranged. As a SW if u get rooted u have the option to swap to melee skills. I don't see the problem. Or maybe u want to kite forever?
2) If we are 1v1, I pull you and snare you, then stun you so u don't get away anyway. Remove all mara skills, right? Let SW win like in the trailer!!!
3) Edit: I die to melee specced SW, so there u go.
1) SW is a ranged class, and unless they are specced/geared into melee their melee abilities will not stand up against a dedicated melee class. Kiting vs. snaring is what ranged vs. melee is mostly balanced around. A 10s, 65ft snare that cannot be broken (by most ranged classes) breaks this balance fundamentally. It's an i-win-button that takes any skill out of the equation.
2) All the more reason to balance this overpowered ability. Mara/WL already has plenty of skills to help them deal with kiters. With most of these I have no issue. A pull is not a 10 sec root, and it has a 2 sec cast time.
3) This is not a topic about melee specced SW. If this class is unbalanced, make a seperate thread and I'll gladly support you if your arguments make sense.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:48 am
by Caduceus
adamthelc wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 3:32 am
1) I dont agree that its obvious it needs to be fixed. Its an anti kiting tool, that doesn't seem that crazy.
2) The problem with this game is that it wasn't originally designed with so much anti kiting tools in mind. Rdps don't really have kits to fight it effectively. Too many gap closers, not enough gap makers.
They should really consider adding stuff like blinks or teleports on rdps. I am not a huge fan of that, since it's very different than the original game. But if you are going to tinker with the original game you have to be prepared to fix the issues your tinkering causes.
3) So by itself I dont think these M1 are a huge problem, but they are a part of a greater problem. Which is out of date kiting tools vs more up to date gap closers/antikiting tools.
1) How is a 65ft range 10 sec unbreakable root (for most ranged dps) that also does a 1k nuke not crazy?
2) I disagree, at least from the perspective of ranged SW. Most match-ups feel surprisingly balanced, where timing makes all the difference. I need to know what abilities my opponents have and how they work. I like that. It feels fair and skill-based.
3) Well, I see a problem with this M1 specifically, but perhaps there are multiple solutions to the problem. I'm not saying it should necessarily be
nerfed, but the imbalance it creates needs to be fixed. This can also be fixed by giving SW a tool to deal with it, which I did in my original post. Make SW M1 'Lileath's Forgiveness' break roots.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:49 am
by Caduceus
Stophy22 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 3:47 am
Dont propose a change without addressing the mirror/other side. Flames of Fate is balanced out with Ensnare on WL. Not saying the ability is balanced but it has the same ability on the other side, so complaining and sayings its overpowered without addressing its direct mirror of an ability is plain ignorance.
Please read my post carefully.
Caduceus wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:51 pm
PS: White Lion 'Ensnare' is identical, so the same argument applies, assuming destro ranged lack any tools to break it as well.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:55 am
by Caduceus
Darks63 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 4:52 am
Just be grateful it can be broken by ability snarebreakers since its a morale.
Ranged dps have no snarebreakers other than Focused Mind, which is an M2. Flames of Fate/Ensnare are M1.
Re: Marauder 'Flames of Fate'
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:00 am
by Caduceus
Fey wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:28 am
Leave it be and give an identical spell to SW at 100 ft. SW obviously needs love and I'm not a fan of the constant morale nerf creep. Morale abilities should be potent.
The fix I proposed in my original post is to make Lileath's Forgiveness (SW M1) break roots. Currently it only breaks snares. Of course something needs to be found for the other classes that struggle with this same imbalance. I'm not necessarily in favor of nerfing the ability.