Return of Reckoning

Kellanved wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:03 am I dont agree with this tier list. BO is not top because lack of punt. 2h BG is top tier. Also mSH is not good tier. Aoe pressure is useless if enemy have competent WP. Choppa in most cases dies 1st and give free immunities.

It was tough to place BO vs BG, ultimately i picked the BO because of its raw dmg output which can be similar to a pure dps's.
People passing out free immunities and not beeing 100% sync with theyr damage on unguarded targets was also a criteria that made me choose this.

Overall BO applies more pressure where BG has more utility. In a group i would always agree with your statement, there are different rules for solo however.

To the squig:
It is pressure that is easy to heal with a competent WP, i agree.
In solo queue however, there are different rules. You might end up fighting an enemy team that
a) does not have a WP
b) cant deal with it anyways because of the lack of gear

and even if they are able to, squig herder is still able to moral dump for TONS of raw burst damage which can be lined up with other damage abilities from 2nd dps.
Also its propably the most INSANE combination, if you happen to have a melee squig + dps dok in your party. Its an unbelieveable amount of pressure on everyone.
On top of that he has tons of mobility options which allows him to close gaps fast or get out of danger which makes him very annoying to deal with and gives him good survivability.

Funny you make a group list and talk about solo play

Both mdok and msh are second tier

This is a list for solo play, you are basically matched with pugs and given your teamcomp there are more and less viable characters and builds to queue up with.

No it is a solo q for group play.

Bozzax wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:44 am Funny you make a group list and talk about solo play

Both mdok and msh are second tier

Melee DoK is a staple in almost every group for a few reasons.

It's a pretty hard counter to WL, which makes it invaluable for solo queue (since there are plenty of WLs rolling around in there).

It has an easily applied heal debuff which covers multiple targets.

It's a 3rd rezer, which can stop full wipes.

Has access to good healer morales.

Lifetap heals aren't effected by heal debuffs (both Inc and outgoing), so you can burst heal someone up that's being trained by a WL/asw combo.

The list goes on.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about if you think m dok isn't top shelf.

Bozzax wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:39 pm No it is a solo q for group play.

yes, and it indicates your carry potential on an individual class and takes it into comparison to other classes while listing arguments for/against it, and why.

It is true that you will join a "group" in this mode, however it is an uncoordinated pug group. It is hard to rely to them, or sometimes find good teamwork.

Some classes are higher up in the list, because they let you have a bigger impact on those type of games overall, given you are playing solo and you cannot rely on your teammates 100%

Its bascially what you call a tier list for those types of games.

this is misinformation..... mara simply dont have the dmg or mobility to carry this map is good for pounce classes like wl and sh and raw dmg dealer like a slayer

I still would put BG over BO in solo 6vs6, because of the punt. There arent that many giveaway of immunities with only 6 players and punting a guard from target (or the target, in case you have rdps team) dont require that much coordination. And as you said is mara maybe best dps, but mdps sh + mdok beat every team with mara in it. Good list!

BG>BO (better cc, more group utility, more tanky, harder to kite, even can carry solo in 1+3 build, etc)
mSH is B or C tier, not enough st damage, very limited utility in 6vs6, insanely ap hungry, only advantage that he's tanky, definitely not better than choppa.
also there's barely any diffence between rsh and dps sham, both either b or c

would say that current SOLO tier list is something like

S:dd DOK, BG, Zeal
A: BO, Mara, Heal Dok
B: heal Sham, Chosen, Choppa, Magus, WE
C: mSH, rSH, dps Sham, Sorc, shield DOK
Trash tier: shield tanks, dd zeal

anyway, player behind the keyboard > his class

dshdf wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:37 pm BG>BO (better cc, more group utility, more tanky, harder to kite, even can carry solo in 1+3 build, etc)
mSH is B or C tier, not enough st damage, very limited utility in 6vs6, insanely ap hungry, only advantage that he's tanky, definitely not better than choppa.
also there's barely any diffence between rsh and dps sham, both either b or c

would say that current SOLO tier list is something like

S:dd DOK, BG, Zeal
A: BO, Mara, Heal Dok
B: heal Sham, Chosen, Choppa, Magus, WE
C: mSH, rSH, dps Sham, Sorc, shield DOK
Trash tier: shield tanks, dd zeal

anyway, player behind the keyboard > his class

mSH is arguably the second best DPS for Des 6v6 due to it’s insane utility (I still don’t understand how people deluded themselves into thinking it doesn’t have great utility), great AoE pressure (most pug healers are garbage and don’t understand their role vs their partnered healer so **** dies too fast), and it’s ungodly mobility. A mSH should NEVER die in solo CW; if they do it’s a huge misplay by the SH (this is the only class that can say this in the game though there are definitely harder classes than others to die on).

From a hard carry perspective on Des the two best classes, hands down, are: DPS DoK for all the aforementioned things in this thread and BG due to its stupidly far ST punt, AoE snare, it’s good damage, and it’s ability to actually be effective in hitting healers (this only makes this list due to how many idiot-ass tanks think they’re helping out by running and non-stop attacking a healer like that’s there job -IT IS NOT AND I F YOU DO THIS YOU ARE WHY YOUR TEAM KEEPS LOSING- due to how BG functions.

Destro is typically going to have an easier time than Order in Solo CW just due to the nature of how their classes all fit together more uniformly than Order does (even though order has more high-synergy comps).