Return of Reckoning

Akilinus wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:33 pm Why do you want to turn tanks into dps?

Well if the devs themselves have come out and said that "2H tanks are dps", without asking the community or "using the balance forums"

Irregardless of how many times people have told them no they are not

Then shouldnt 2h tanks perform like dps?

TenTonHammer wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:07 pm

Akilinus wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:33 pm Why do you want to turn tanks into dps?

Well if the devs themselves have come out and said that "2H tanks are dps", without asking the community or "using the balance forums"

Irregardless of how many times people have told them no they are not

Then shouldnt 2h tanks perform like dps?

You know the word of some people in the community is so tainted it impacts the otherwise legitimate feedback we might receive. We're only this dense because we either believe you are straight up being dishonest, or because dishonesty in the past has led us to believe your legitimate honest feedback is equally dishonest until other people start to chime in.

Non-specific "you" being used of course.

When it comes to tanks who strongly diverge from their tank role, it's not hard to dig up examples. Are they as good as pure DPS? Sometimes, but their leftover tankiness more than makes up for it.

The dishonesty around what a "DPS tank" is trying to be is staggering. Stop pretending, it's embarrassing. If you want to pick up a 2h weapon and go full DPS spec at least have some pride about it. Don't dance around pretending like you're a proper tank trying desperately to fill a tanking role when you're clearly not. It's okay. Others might hate you, but we believe in you. Be strong! DPS tanks are cool with us! They're just not... quite... Tanks.

On the side note, its part of the fun taking a class/spec which really shouldn't be dps, such as snb chosen, and seeing how you can spec it into a working dps.

If I ever roll order, it will likely be a dps snb kotb.

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:35 pm The dishonesty around what a "DPS tank" is trying to be is staggering. Stop pretending, it's embarrassing. If you want to pick up a 2h weapon and go full DPS spec at least have some pride about it. Don't dance around pretending like you're a proper tank trying desperately to fill a tanking role when you're clearly not. It's okay. Others might hate you, but we believe in you. Be strong! DPS tanks are cool with us! They're just not... quite... Tanks.

I probably agree with that. Certain 2h tank builds are absolutely fearsome in 1v1 (e.g., they will beat mdps in 1v1). I also agree there is a lot of dishonesty around the damage output with 2handed tanks and how effective they are. I have seen 2handed tank and mdps combos not quite two man warbands, but kill a great deal of zerglings before being taken down, so I can understand where you are coming from here.

I'd still probably err on the side that they should count as tanks and not DPS for SC purposes, purely because there is already a lot of DPS classes vying for two spots in SC groups...

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:35 pm The dishonesty around what a "DPS tank" is trying to be is staggering. Stop pretending, it's embarrassing. If you want to pick up a 2h weapon and go full DPS spec at least have some pride about it. Don't dance around pretending like you're a proper tank trying desperately to fill a tanking role when you're clearly not. It's okay. Others might hate you, but we believe in you. Be strong! DPS tanks are cool with us! They're just not... quite... Tanks.

This sounds like a straw man argument. What when you use a 2hand and don´t go full dps, but more support role?
Are you a dps as 2hand or not?

Example:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,3094,3073

valid kobs spec. 2hand. this is dps? seriously?
What makes this spec a dps-spec and not a tank-spec? Which changes would make it a tank-spec and why? I really don´t get it.

Arbich wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:16 pm
This sounds like a straw man argument. What when you use a 2hand and don´t go full dps, but more support role?
Are you a dps as 2hand or not?

The general point that 2handed tanks, even KotBS, can be very effective DPS, and it is often denied by the player base, is probably true. It may be a generalisation but is not a strawman, in my opinion.

^^^ but that ignores the fact all super punts are tied to 2h. That 2h procs include increased evasion, increased speed, and auto taunt. Where SnB gets crappy damage and crappy absorp procs. I don't believe that there is a tank required to go SnB for a KD either. So other than HtL or going Derp Defense, why go shield? And even then, 2hs can reach epic lvls of evasion.

Devs also tied nearly all DPS abilities to 2hs, so the days of SnB and doing good damage are gone.

Yes a 2h can do significant damage. Anyone that wants to increase tank DPS hasn't been blown up by a BG with anti detaunt. Or a BO in hvy DPS spec. Or is just trolling.

Lastly, if you're in a group then DPs or tank question is irrelevant for SCs. Its only solo queueing the distinction is made. And yes. Most PUG tanks might as well be DPS since they act/die like they are.

So many changes were input to tanks, that it changed the way they are played and specced. 2hs were boosted and made required for so many things, ofc SnB was gonna fade away. You only need 3 shields for a WB, so why would you sacrifice on super punts/speed procs?

Arbich wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:16 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:35 pm The dishonesty around what a "DPS tank" is trying to be is staggering. Stop pretending, it's embarrassing. If you want to pick up a 2h weapon and go full DPS spec at least have some pride about it. Don't dance around pretending like you're a proper tank trying desperately to fill a tanking role when you're clearly not. It's okay. Others might hate you, but we believe in you. Be strong! DPS tanks are cool with us! They're just not... quite... Tanks.

This sounds like a straw man argument. What when you use a 2hand and don´t go full dps, but more support role?
Are you a dps as 2hand or not?

Example:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,3094,3073

valid kobs spec. 2hand. this is dps? seriously?
What makes this spec a dps-spec and not a tank-spec? Which changes would make it a tank-spec and why? I really don´t get it.

I guess according to the devs, the Kobs would become a tank if they "put on the proper equipment". So if the "Dps Knight" equipped the shield then they would become a tank.

Its not a meme or a joke, the devs actually see 2h tanks as DPS. So we need probably start taking OP like this seriously and consider incoming heal debuff and crit dmg modifier tactics for tanks as well as detaunt etc.

Seems like too much work, just to make a minority happy. But just for arguments sake any "actual dps'" tank spec should be tied to focused offense. And focused offense should be changed to also prevent the use of guard, challenge or tanky morales.

Lol keep go like this really outstanding proposal lately....