Return of Reckoning

drmordread wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:52 am I am surprised you dont use the wnds buff from INV/VANQ gear combo. With over 7200 wnds it gives you options to be slightly more offensive /effective vs def spec WE's, Maras and even healers. Add the debuffs from EW spec / tree and you should be set.

I don't have invader yet. But in that case you will lose 5% more crit. I think crit is everything for WH. Right now I have 7600 hp. IF you go for EW, you will lose the armor penetration. Due to double heal debuff you should be better vs healers, but in 1 vs 1 I think it is inferior. But I am speculating, have not tried EW build yet. Would be happy to duel with EW WH to test.

popperz wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:01 am

drmordread wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:52 am I am surprised you dont use the wnds buff from INV/VANQ gear combo. With over 7200 wnds it gives you options to be slightly more offensive /effective vs def spec WE's, Maras and even healers. Add the debuffs from EW spec / tree and you should be set.

I don't have invader yet. But in that case you will lose 5% more crit. I think crit is everything for WH. Right now I have 7600 hp. IF you go for EW, you will lose the armor penetration. Due to double heal debuff you should be better vs healers, but in 1 vs 1 I think it is inferior. But I am speculating, have not tried EW build yet. Would be happy to duel with EW WH to test.

Crit is king for WH I agree. That is why I have nothing specced into futile strikes.

My RR is specced into STx2 Max crit, parryx2 and the rest into what I call fluff


Unfortunately with all the crit mitigation added to the game, and removal of crit tallies from the game, by RoR devs, has made crit "iffy"

u need a proper gear/build/setup tactic to beat that and even with that i'm not sure to beat a def WE for solo/duel crit is probably one of the worst stat, needed against few class (especially sham dps). so what's ur gear/build/tactic setup when you came to face a def WE ?

Well, full invader would probable be pretty easy answer to that def WE build, but then again, i would not like to run solo roam with spec counter only 1 type of enemy. Same goes for that WE build, cool she can beat other Melees, great, now what happens when she got caught by DPS AM or RangedSW ? Right, run away asap...

Xergon wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 pm Well, full invader would probable be pretty easy answer to that def WE build, but then again, i would not like to run solo roam with spec counter only 1 type of enemy. Same goes for that WE build, cool she can beat other Melees, great, now what happens when she got caught by DPS AM or RangedSW ? Right, run away asap...

since when RangedSW is good against a WE ?

from my own exp, even AM will have a lot of trouble against that type of WE spec. with that spec just avoiding fight against dps/tank+heal because they will kill you in the end but u have more than enough time to run away.
unlike glasscannon deftard spec are easy to play and is not deadly with mistakes, even with a bunch of mistake u can win the fight against a opponent who don't

that's as stupid as the old guardian

WExWH wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:38 pm u need a proper gear/build/setup tactic to beat that and even with that i'm not sure to beat a def WE for solo/duel crit is probably one of the worst stat, needed against few class (especially sham dps). so what's ur gear/build/tactic setup when you came to face a def WE ?

I don't want a special build. As Xergon mentioned above, there is no point in spec'ing to face a single class. So the spec is: RoR.builders - Witch Hunter
Currently running full vanq. The only flexibility I do is from time to time switch vanq with full WS to STR. Also switching brute force to seeker's blade tactic or +2 mechanic tactic is common - depends on the mood. It has no dramatic influence against def WE's, while shifts effectiveness against other classes.

Xergon wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 pm Well, full invader would probable be pretty easy answer to that def WE build, but then again, i would not like to run solo roam with spec counter only 1 type of enemy. Same goes for that WE build, cool she can beat other Melees, great, now what happens when she got caught by DPS AM or RangedSW ? Right, run away asap...

7th proc is garbage. Enoo runs with full invader (at least used to). At best it gives him/her 0.7-1k dmg per fight. And I think you underestimate witchbrew and kisses. Witchbrew is what made the def WE spec possible. So SW will die 100% (all the tools are present). DPS AM oh well, there are some DPS shamans, which if you are unlucky with crits you just run away asap. The 75% detaunt proc and run away tactic does magic. And if it is open field like chaos wastes I just don't bother opening. So facing something healer type is not an argument.

WExWH wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:39 pm

Xergon wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 pm Well, full invader would probable be pretty easy answer to that def WE build, but then again, i would not like to run solo roam with spec counter only 1 type of enemy. Same goes for that WE build, cool she can beat other Melees, great, now what happens when she got caught by DPS AM or RangedSW ? Right, run away asap...

since when RangedSW is good against a WE ?

from my own exp, even AM will have a lot of trouble against that type of WE spec. with that spec just avoiding fight against dps/tank+heal because they will kill you in the end but u have more than enough time to run away.
unlike glasscannon deftard spec are easy to play and is not deadly with mistakes, even with a bunch of mistake u can win the fight against a opponent who don't

that's as stupid as the old guardian

Well lets not make it into omg OP WE thread It's not that bad, but for sure it is powerful and quite flexible. There was a long time when WE's were quite in a disadvantage against WH and no mistakes were allowed. Now it just does not allow a single mistake for WH. All the fights I have with def WEs are extremely close ones or result in my loss. Do want some stability I think obtaining the "wit" weapon would solve the problem for me. The -800 armor debuff, would compensate (in a way) the loss in dmg due to the 0% crit rate. However, PvE is so hard...

popperz wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:45 pm Now it just does not allow a single mistake for WH. All the fights I have with def WEs are extremely close ones or result in my loss. Do want some stability I think obtaining the "wit" weapon would solve the problem for me. The -800 armor debuff, would compensate (in a way) the loss in dmg due to the 0% crit rate. However, PvE is so hard...

i hate being able to make a lot of mistakes and still be able to win against an opponent who will not make a single mistake

weap from dungeon city or even from epic quest are the best, weap snare proc on being hit against tank/mdps u won't lose a lot of dps between the blue from epic quest and purple from dungeon city and the gain will make up for the little loss of dps (snare/armor debuff), especially when u don't need a lot of crit

i don't want to make a OP WE thread because my main was a WE and everyone can do it with any class

WExWH wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:39 pm

Xergon wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:11 pm Well, full invader would probable be pretty easy answer to that def WE build, but then again, i would not like to run solo roam with spec counter only 1 type of enemy. Same goes for that WE build, cool she can beat other Melees, great, now what happens when she got caught by DPS AM or RangedSW ? Right, run away asap...

since when RangedSW is good against a WE ?

from my own exp, even AM will have a lot of trouble against that type of WE spec. with that spec just avoiding fight against dps/tank+heal because they will kill you in the end but u have more than enough time to run away.
unlike glasscannon deftard spec are easy to play and is not deadly with mistakes, even with a bunch of mistake u can win the fight against a opponent who don't

that's as stupid as the old guardian

If i catch WE 1st on my SW she is 9/10 times dead, specially with my full invader gear .

It's hard to see how DPS AM can struggle with WE specially a defensive one...

The other shade:
Maybe it will save time of new WHs in the future.
Tested the AA tactic on dummies. Condition full VANQ, ~950 str, 25% crit, rr61 sc weapons.

With the AA tactic: DPS ~510
Without AA tactic: DPS ~350
So the "win" is around 150 dps. My total DPS on dummie is around 2k (measurement stopped when AP bar is depleted)

Therefore the AA tactic gives around 7.5% of my DPS.
The preliminary conclusion is: if you plan to remove brute force, it's better to remove AA tactic and leave brute force. Preliminary since I need a data pool in rvr. Mitigation due to armor and armor penetration may affect the percentages. But for now I doubt that the conclusion will change. For WE it's the other story since the application of kisses has another mechanic. We don't have any procs.