Return of Reckoning

Zealots and RPs can top damage charts. Doesn't mean they're actually doing any real damage.

kmark101 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:19 pm Statistics shows differently. Every single time when those melee SH's join scenarios, its almost over at instant: all top spot on dps chart taken by them, all with 0 deaths (literally unkillable (and without guard), if all order side focuses only on them they just hop away easily (did I mentoin multiple escape tools in same build?).

It's just bad to have everything mixed into a single build and needs to be toned down.

The above is a confused post. Melee SHs primarily are AOE damage from their skills tree. AOE damage does not in and of itself indicate if said damage was superfluous or no raw damage numbers are meaningless. If the melee SH aren't dying, then they are most likely in a full defensive mode, which means they can't really kill either. They are just absorbing damage.

The quoted post is hyperbolic.

Orontes wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:42 pm

kmark101 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:19 pm Statistics shows differently. Every single time when those melee SH's join scenarios, its almost over at instant: all top spot on dps chart taken by them, all with 0 deaths (literally unkillable (and without guard), if all order side focuses only on them they just hop away easily (did I mentoin multiple escape tools in same build?).

It's just bad to have everything mixed into a single build and needs to be toned down.

The above is a confused post. Melee SHs primarily are AOE damage from their skills tree. AOE damage does not in and of itself indicate if said damage was superfluous or no raw damage numbers are meaningless. If the melee SH aren't dying, then they are most likely in a full defensive mode, which means they can't really kill either. They are just absorbing damage.

The quoted post is hyperbolic.

Even though you really try to display my post as "confused", stats show that I'm right and the rest of your assumptions doesn't matter. Melee squigs shouldn't:
- top the dps meter
- never die
- selfheal
- have more than 1 instant escape skill
All at one build.

If you think it's ok then you clearly don't want a balanced game.

catholicism198 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:59 pm Zealots and RPs can top damage charts. Doesn't mean they're actually doing any real damage.

When they do good dps, both of those classes melt under focus fire and can't really instant flee to the other side of the map. That's why they are balanced. SH is not.

kmark101 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:11 pm

catholicism198 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:59 pm Zealots and RPs can top damage charts. Doesn't mean they're actually doing any real damage.

When they do good dps, both of those classes melt under focus fire and can't really instant flee to the other side of the map. That's why they are balanced. SH is not.

and that folks is what is commonly referred to as tunnel vision.

I'm not even going to bother with you anymore.

Bye, Felicia.

Torquemadra wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:24 pm You have 2 level 40s a IB and a Slayer, you have zero destro characters, you dont know what you are talking about. Stay out of the thread until you get experience on this class.

I don't want to push this too hard because I don't want you to ban me, but I disagree with this statement. I do know what I'm talking about and it is based on actual gameplay, stats, logs, scenario scoreboards and everyday actions... like a normal tester. I have experience on the class because I'm on the receiving end of this a lot and I believe I could give you an accurate summary. There is nothing even to argue about here, everything that I stated are happening. Just as most of the players who think WL are overpowered never played one: you don't necessarily need to play one to see when it's overtuned a bit, if you take your time to examine the outcome. I won't post in this anymore thou as you asked.

kmark101 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:19 pm Statistics shows differently...

literally unkillable (and without guard)

Wow, thanks for bringing such accurate and reliable statistics and data to this conversation. I didn't realize I had 0 deaths on my SH, this is a very nice feature to know about.

kmark101 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:30 pm

Torquemadra wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:24 pm You have 2 level 40s a IB and a Slayer, you have zero destro characters, you dont know what you are talking about. Stay out of the thread until you get experience on this class.

I don't want to push this too hard because I don't want you to ban me, but I disagree with this statement. I do know what I'm talking about and it is based on actual gameplay, stats, logs, scenario scoreboards and everyday actions... like a normal tester. I have experience on the class because I'm on the receiving end of this a lot and I believe I could give you an accurate summary. There is nothing even to argue about here, everything that I stated are happening. Just as most of the players who think WL are overpowered never played one: you don't necessarily need to play one to see when it's overtuned a bit, if you take your time to examine the outcome. I won't post in this anymore thou as you asked.

Why aren't min-max destro premades bringing melee SHs into their premade? For the same reason that they aren't bringing DPS zealots, or changing magi: AoE fluff damage that allows them to top the scoreboards, with very little/no meaningful ST pressure (melee SH does have some decent ST dps, but the lack of a +crit modifier means that every other DPS is better).

They are tough, and they are incredibly annoying, but no moreso than a competent WL, or IB, or Engineer who knows how to global people. Scenario scoreboards used as evidence of anything is usually a bad way to go.

Hmm i don’t think you realize that the bouncin squig herder is the lowest single-target mdps in the game. When you say they’re topping damage, what you mean is that their aoe is gradually accumulating throughout the scenario. And when you’re saying they’re unkillable, you’re referring to the sh’s who are in full dominator, winds impervious jewelry, and whatever other defenses they can allocate.

This means they’re doing even less single-target damage than what’s mentioned above, and are mostly there to troll and harass the enemy team. So to call a spec with no damage, no incoming heal debuff, no armor debuff, and no group utility outside of indigestion, overpowered is pretty ludicrous.

If anything, the spec needs something more to justify its presence over another mdps in organized groups.

]My problem with melee sh is that make even worse archetypes balance between realms.

Until sh rework destro got much more frontline that consist more tanks and more dps. After making melee sh competent tanky-support destro got even more frontline presence over orders.
While sh aoe dmg is okish and cant kill by itself it goes with quite potent debuffs and easy way to cast them onto the enemy which shift abit realms balance on wb level of play.

Overall I think the changes to melee shs were good but may be some tunning on cc and debuffs would be good step