Return of Reckoning

Rampage + rune of absorption for undefendable self heal.
Speaking of cheese, I'm not sure why rampage is still untouched.
But I don't play the class so I don't have anything to say about it balance-wise.

ToXoS wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:27 pm Speaking of cheese, I'm not sure why rampage is still untouched.

If devs really want to nerf Rampage, at least it could become a tactic that grants RoA to be 100% unblockable.

Following the class's most distinctive and meaningful mechanic rampage as a signature slayer ability should lower the slayer's own avoidance by 25% while in yellow and 50% while in red for the duration of It.
Just food for thought, not even a proposal, as this is not the balance forum and I don't currently have a slayer.

If you have a balance proposal and a Slayer with sufficient rank you know where to go.

ToXoS wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:27 pm Rampage + rune of absorption for undefendable self heal.
Speaking of cheese, I'm not sure why rampage is still untouched.
But I don't play the class so I don't have anything to say about it balance-wise.

Easily wayto defend this as SO many WE's/Tanks do or RDPS ( KD or Disarm )

I understand how people view Ripostle + Rampage + RoA ability. and on SOME classes it works great yes. I can easily tell tho by how people play against me that they understand Slayer buff and what to do when popped. WE's will Stun + Kite for 10/20 sec wait for it to be down, some tanks defenses are so high that they dont care. My RoA gets less than 100health back to me and they have Aura's that earn that back all the time or Absorb to counter my RoA. Two things: 1 Either Im a horrible Slayer, because I get killed by Melee all the time 1v1 and I only win vs Noobs, or 2: Some people recognize the abilities of enemies and they have figured out ways to counter it.

Toshutkidup wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:51 pm

ToXoS wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:27 pm Rampage + rune of absorption for undefendable self heal.
Speaking of cheese, I'm not sure why rampage is still untouched.
But I don't play the class so I don't have anything to say about it balance-wise.

Easily wayto defend this as SO many WE's/Tanks do or RDPS ( KD or Disarm )

I understand how people view Ripostle + Rampage + RoA ability. and on SOME classes it works great yes. I can easily tell tho by how people play against me that they understand Slayer buff and what to do when popped. WE's will Stun + Kite for 10/20 sec wait for it to be down, some tanks defenses are so high that they dont care. My RoA gets less than 100health back to me and they have Aura's that earn that back all the time or Absorb to counter my RoA. Two things: 1 Either Im a horrible Slayer, because I get killed by Melee all the time 1v1 and I only win vs Noobs, or 2: Some people recognize the abilities of enemies and they have figured out ways to counter it.

I don't see how a slayer can be kited by a WE since Slayer has a charge and WE doesn't, but ok.
Some classes like BG or DoK can still shatter Rampage, so I guess counters exist.
But still, it's a low-hanging juicy fruit at only 5 points in the tree. I just find this odd for an ability that good.
Again, I don't play Slayer, so maybe I'm wrong, what do you think?

ToXoS wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Toshutkidup wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:51 pm

ToXoS wrote: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:27 pm Rampage + rune of absorption for undefendable self heal.
Speaking of cheese, I'm not sure why rampage is still untouched.
But I don't play the class so I don't have anything to say about it balance-wise.

Easily wayto defend this as SO many WE's/Tanks do or RDPS ( KD or Disarm )

I understand how people view Ripostle + Rampage + RoA ability. and on SOME classes it works great yes. I can easily tell tho by how people play against me that they understand Slayer buff and what to do when popped. WE's will Stun + Kite for 10/20 sec wait for it to be down, some tanks defenses are so high that they dont care. My RoA gets less than 100health back to me and they have Aura's that earn that back all the time or Absorb to counter my RoA. Two things: 1 Either Im a horrible Slayer, because I get killed by Melee all the time 1v1 and I only win vs Noobs, or 2: Some people recognize the abilities of enemies and they have figured out ways to counter it.

I don't see how a slayer can be kited by a WE since Slayer has a charge and WE doesn't, but ok.
Some classes like BG or DoK can still shatter Rampage, so I guess counters exist.
But still, it's a low-hanging juicy fruit at only 5 points in the tree. I just find this odd for an ability that good.
Again, I don't play Slayer, so maybe I'm wrong, what do you think?

I would be ok with rasing the point requirment for Rampage, say 10 instead of 5. The way WE's kite ( I DONT KNOW WE"S ABILITIES NAMES) is they apply movent dmg, 2:they stun and jump back 3# it seems they have some ability to run almost as fast as charge OR after they stun enough time to mount then restealth then repop on me.
Choppas new way to combat rampage+ RoA is again notice when I pop it and pull me.. thats 3-5 seconds of wasted time. Thats alot of time usually RoA is negated-so no health earned back.There are several classes or certain people that I just cannot win against. Again this could be just me and how I play, I dunno. But in no way whe I roam solo do I have some 3/4 -1 KD ratio ( remove getting zerged killed and remove my oil kills ). Mara's I dont even fight anymore, I just ignore them and move on or just say F it and just die. Again either its my build , playstyle,rotation or just me. But Im not just destroying people + I use all pots avail- Insta+Hot+absorb in like 80% of my fights.

Most slayers have REALLY high weaponskill. The more defensive a tank is the less STR and parry strikethru he is bound to have. Typical defensive tank Will be extremely Lucky to be able to connect a KD or shatter enchantment vs slayer, and once rampage is on he Will have zero avoidance, no charge to disengage, and scarcely any armor mitigation vs such amount of weaponskill. ROA isnt even needed here. Offensive tanks or mdps except heavy monstro mara don't stand a chance either, and if a WE has opened on a slayer with stoutness of Stone slotted he can recover and by the time she could stun or disarm him again she has already bitten the dust.
Even if a destro melee char was lucky enough to bypass the slayer brutal parrywall going behind his backup or having their shatter connect, his KD is still undefendable.

So, slayer as solo class VS melee is very much doable. VS Ranged, slayer needs to be good to pull It off.

I been trying high defence build (with standard WB masteries though - ID/SL/DW) last few days with 4-4.2k armor, 400~ toughness, occasionally switching jewelry between WI, genesis and parry stacking. It seems to work decently well but its been hard to find a decent 1v1, even when you find someone suddenly a healer or a roaming group pops up out of thin air

As for builds...
I feel like parry/riposte cheese is the best bet for solo roaming there is.
You have very little ways to deal with ranged enemies and to stick to them once you got close(snare lasts 5s while having 10s cd). So IMO its better to just don't bother about ranged enemies and gear up to kill melee.
Stoutness of Stone IMO should be considered mandatory because otherwise you get eaten for breakfast by first decently geared WE.

Parry is not a panacea though, when snared its pretty hard to keep enemy in parry window and i suspect part of that is due to latency issues. I had a few deaths where on my screen enemy would just get stuck on top of me, whereas on their screen they went around me and is hitting me in the back.

Rampage gives you better chances against other melee and tanks, but they also have tools of their own so its not like it is auto win. After all you still have to face armor which cuts quite a portion of your damage. Stacking high WS isnt as effective as people seem to think and comes at a price of losing defense, although less so when you are very high RR
Rampage is no more "broken" than having free 100% armor penetration, roots, disarms, knockbacks, pulls and so on.
Every class has something, compared to others Slayer has the least amount tools to work with, at least let us have Rampage.

RoA is also often heavily mitigated by armor and doesn't heal that much, i don't even use now.

Incapacitate IMO is weaker than what other classes have. It requires you to be in combat for 15+ seconds (if you use Rampage or Enervating blow add +5 seconds for each) and when you use it you lose damage bonus, while many other classes have KD on demand and can combo it with their burst rotation.

VS Ranged, slayer needs to be good to pull It off.

i see almost no ranged solo roamers when i play, only Magi but they dont count because they have tank-level defences
but i feel like against ranged opponents it just comes down to who has better proximity awarness - if you get a chance to engage them in melee you have a chance

I don't see how a slayer can be kited by a WE since Slayer has a charge and WE doesn't, but ok.

If the enemy pops Flee and you were ~50ft away from them you wont catch up even with Charge - true for any ranged enemy when they engage you first, as well as for SH/WE after self-punt or any tank who managed to land punt through your parry

The standard problem of the solo Slayer is the same problem of other dwarf classes too: too much physical damage type.

Since everyone is geared to their teeth with armor (too easy to cap), everyone with physical damage type only is at a serious disadvantage with 60%+ mitigations against. It just ruins all skills (like RoA) and turns high risk/high reward type of characters to high risk/tiny reward.

At least a few skills (like dots) should consider different damage types for every class or this unbalance will continue to grow.