[IRONBREAKER] Why the Preconception?

[Jaycub]

its not that the other tanks do or don't have armor debuff, it's that WL has one, that is undefendable, doesn't require mechanic, can pounce to have it on a target faster, and it is of higher value.

its best buff is only good against melee (parry buff) and let's face it mdps domination of late live is over and done with now. Also on live when IB was always picked over SM armor values where extrodinarily higher so WH outpaced WL which also had problems with their pet on live. It was a perfect situation for IB to take over, but that is not the case here. SM is now ran as second tank in 2-2-2 because it has utility not covered already by the new meta setups, and of course for 3-2-1 nothing can hold a candle to knight as a solo tank for party.

IB is harder to play ya, but it's not really that much harder id argue playing a healer well is much more mechanically demanding. Not to mention the IB/BG mechanic really at least from my perspective in BG which I believe has much easier time with mechanic was constantly getting in the way of using abilities to their full potential, of which wasn't even that impressive. If you took away the 90/100(?) mechanic requirement for full armor debuff it would be totally laughable to say that would be OP. Their mechanic needs a total rework imo, right now it's just frustrating/in the way with little to no payoff.

[Arteker616]

Wasting moral for armor debuff or using a specific armor set doesn't compensate for a lacking debuff. In each case you skip other probably more useful options.

Rolf
Demo strike wich is m1 , do stack so u can have x3 armour debuff for a minimum of 3,4k, sure its a minute ability but in a well cordinated assist +hd from ur local mdps means even with guard the preasure on target is total . specialy on softies

[Esperflame]

Not to mention the IB/BG mechanic really at least from my perspective in BG which I believe has much easier time with mechanic was constantly getting in the way of using abilities to their full potential, of which wasn't even that impressive. If you took away the 90/100(?) mechanic requirement for full armor debuff it would be totally laughable to say that would be OP. Their mechanic needs a total rework imo, right now it's just frustrating/in the way with little to no payoff.

Actually while the BG doesn't use Hatred as much as the IB does, the IB can fill up their grudges much faster and even while running Grumble and Mutter can keep their grudges quite full. I think you were saying the BG has an easier time managing/gaining Hatred, but the opposite is actually true. It's just the BG doesn't spend hatred as much or as fast as an IB. I play both so I at least can say I have an idea on what I'm talking about.

[Eathisword]

20 secs 1k armour buff.no cd
20 secs 114 str +wp for 441 cd 5 secs .
20 secs 114 thoughnes buff nocdbut
10secs 890 rune agaisnt magical atatcks, 10 secs cd.
10 secs 10% critic buff+str buff. with no cd .
10secs 25 parry+ ini buff with no cd .
20 secs , ap pump+114 ws self buff.

ib buffs are top notch , they last gor a good ammount of time, 10 secs to 20 secs . buffin ahead with ib and knowing when and what are to use is a must, the problem is alot of ibs are just pure dps tanks msot often dont even bother to buff , but the class himself is very good and capable on himself.

Well, all those buffs have some problems :
1- Armor : if spec for group (ie, you pick 25% parry + 10% crit/cave-in and Earthshatter), it is 720, not 1k... and since everyone runs 660 pots = Useless
2 - 114 strength, again, in group spec, it is 102. Knight aura is better (and it has a 50% debuff value), blue potion is better, mostly useless.
3 - 114 toughness... again, if spec right, this one is gonna be 90. Less than a pot, less than knight. No debuff part. Useless.
4- Runic shield. In right spec is 760 ish. Very good imo. Although, bubble is kinda small and cost massive grudge (30).
5- WS buff, again not 114. It is good in solo, meh in group cause WS buff dont affect oathfriend, as you said. The AP part isnt potent either (25 AP per Hit an enemy, which you can do probably 4 times during the buff for +100AP every 20s). Can be very very good if timed perfect with a class that is AP starved. But there are better AP buff options that this 20s CD one
6- 10% crit buff for 10s. That one is gold. Excellent buff. No CD but cost 15 grudges.
7- 25% parry + 60 ini. Excellent buff again. No CD but cost 15 grudges.

So basically, we have 2 good buffs. 2 average ones and 3 useless one. Now if we look at the 2 good ones : crit and parry, we see that SM has them covered. Nature's Blade will reduce initiative by enough to grant roughly 10% crit for EVERYONE on that target while buffing team ini by more than IB's buff on Oathfriend. Then it has a 25% parry buff and a 50% parry/dodge/disrupt buff although they are both self buff. They even have access to a reduce crit attack of 25% with Lingering Intimidation which is 5% better than IB counter part which need 100 grudge (Kneecapper).

What is left for IB ? Our mighty 700 magic absorb bubble ? Weaksauce 900 armor debuff ? Or half-ass punt ? IB is a brilliant class, no question, but it has no place in a proper group of more than 2-3 that isn't roleplaying. Knight is too good. And SM can bring pretty much IB's remaining buffs with 30-50% more damage on top.

[g2knee]

Ironbreakers are great tanks -- but they are just hard to play. I'm a noob (was pretty good on live though) but I have to say that there are just SO MANY abilities, buffs, etc that using the right one at the right time (or scrambling to keep as many up at a time as you can) is just absurd. If it was just a matter of using all your abilities, that's easy. But at the same time you are switching targets (enemy AND friendly potentially), positioning your character, surveying the flow of battle, and using attacks. When I play, I feel like a piano virtuoso -- my fingers are dancing all over the place with the amount of keybinds I have. And I'm not even rank 40 yet!

There are some great IB players, and I love seeing them on the field (and its fun playing one usually) but you really have to be a pro and live in a gromril suit to use the class to even 90% of its potential.

[roadkillrobin]

Remove armor/stat potions and change or remove Prayer of Absolution and IB becomes a really good class.

[shaggyboomboom]

Remove armor/stat potions and IB becomes a really good class.

And so does the WP which gives a group wide buff...

[CytheX]

Sm lack of real cc, so i think the problem come vs kotbs not vs sm that bring very little to the party, and yea ini stat steal is very good.but its random and its not 100% up when needed.

[roadkillrobin]

Remove armor/stat potions and IB becomes a really good class.

And so does the WP which gives a group wide buff...

Yeah edited it.

[g2knee]

I would love to remove pots like that.

"When everyone has +660 armor, nobody has +660 of armor."