Return of Reckoning

This wasnt meant to be a WE vs WH debate, I wanted to highlight the lack of options on the WH side. I disagree with your points, but to each their own opinion.

I would like the WH to have more tools, then just parry, particularly so we can get more involved in the larger fights.

Krima wrote:
What both classes need IMHO its charge... or something like when in stealth mode, speed boost of 15%. Leave both classes the way it is...dont change nothing and add stuff like that will help ourgameplay alot in 6v6. Its very ez to shut down a WE or WH in 6v6 just place a tank on top of him perma snaring, GG

Mobility is definitely a problem, particularly on order side when, like Antropik points out, we have to go up against both SH. Not sure 15% from stealth would cut it. We can stealth and unless your popping rd/snare prevention on the way in (unlikley) you can get snared and do nothing about it. This is one of the reasons I would like to do more whilst in stealth.

Faef wrote:

Krima wrote:
What both classes need IMHO its charge... or something like when in stealth mode, speed boost of 15%. Leave both classes the way it is...dont change nothing and add stuff like that will help ourgameplay alot in 6v6. Its very ez to shut down a WE or WH in 6v6 just place a tank on top of him perma snaring, GG

Mobility is definitely a problem, particularly on order side when, like Antropik points out, we have to go up against both SH. Not sure 15% from stealth would cut it. We can stealth and unless your popping rd/snare prevention on the way in (unlikley) you can get snared and do nothing about it. This is one of the reasons I would like to do more whilst in stealth.

the answer is purchasing rd , im amazed the sheer ammount of whs in order wich try to solo gank without it . specialy when u try to take down to kiter classes .

Arteker616 wrote:

Faef wrote:

Krima wrote:
What both classes need IMHO its charge... or something like when in stealth mode, speed boost of 15%. Leave both classes the way it is...dont change nothing and add stuff like that will help ourgameplay alot in 6v6. Its very ez to shut down a WE or WH in 6v6 just place a tank on top of him perma snaring, GG

Mobility is definitely a problem, particularly on order side when, like Antropik points out, we have to go up against both SH. Not sure 15% from stealth would cut it. We can stealth and unless your popping rd/snare prevention on the way in (unlikley) you can get snared and do nothing about it. This is one of the reasons I would like to do more whilst in stealth.

the answer is purchasing rd , im amazed the sheer ammount of whs in order wich try to solo gank without it . specialy when u try to take down to kiter classes .

RD is on a 10min cd. And game is not balanced 1v1..We are talking about 6v6.
6v6 WE and WH basicly are perma snare all the time...when a party kills one player..chopa, mara, slayer,wl can all charge into target.. while WE/WH has no catch up game. Impossible to close the gap. Thats key for mdps especially in light armor,

Faef wrote:

Krima wrote:
What both classes need IMHO its charge... or something like when in stealth mode, speed boost of 15%. Leave both classes the way it is...dont change nothing and add stuff like that will help ourgameplay alot in 6v6. Its very ez to shut down a WE or WH in 6v6 just place a tank on top of him perma snaring, GG

Mobility is definitely a problem, particularly on order side when, like Antropik points out, we have to go up against both SH. Not sure 15% from stealth would cut it. We can stealth and unless your popping rd/snare prevention on the way in (unlikley) you can get snared and do nothing about it. This is one of the reasons I would like to do more whilst in stealth.

Order as a whole already has a dozen snares/perma snares and rkds all in the name of combating shamy and herders

Now, yet another option is needed?

Krima wrote:

Arteker616 wrote:

Faef wrote:
Mobility is definitely a problem, particularly on order side when, like Antropik points out, we have to go up against both SH. Not sure 15% from stealth would cut it. We can stealth and unless your popping rd/snare prevention on the way in (unlikley) you can get snared and do nothing about it. This is one of the reasons I would like to do more whilst in stealth.

the answer is purchasing rd , im amazed the sheer ammount of whs in order wich try to solo gank without it . specialy when u try to take down to kiter classes .

RD is on a 10min cd. And game is not balanced 1v1..We are talking about 6v6.
6v6 WE and WH basicly are perma snare all the time...when a party kills one player..chopa, mara, slayer,wl can all charge into target.. while WE/WH has no catch up game. Impossible to close the gap. Thats key for mdps especially in light armor,

all others mdps are at the mercy of rdps before the engage , u dont have that trouble as wh , or we. all others mdps have their drawbacks , essentially u are asking for we whs to have the tools adventages of the other mdps while keeping incognito or prowler.
RD is aswell on 5 mins cd not 10 . plenty of time for soloing , kiters . about game balance i swear recently read torque he want common sense on class balance before 6 man balance peter pan and few others been advocating .
i have done plenty of partys with wes and whs , urself in that list included , and lack of snare removal was not a issue for you ever or need of charge .

Infact most mdps in 6vs 6 dont use charge as gape closer but as scape tool , something wes and whs got allready with self punt .

TenTonHammer wrote:

Faef wrote:

Krima wrote:
What both classes need IMHO its charge... or something like when in stealth mode, speed boost of 15%. Leave both classes the way it is...dont change nothing and add stuff like that will help ourgameplay alot in 6v6. Its very ez to shut down a WE or WH in 6v6 just place a tank on top of him perma snaring, GG

Mobility is definitely a problem, particularly on order side when, like Antropik points out, we have to go up against both SH. Not sure 15% from stealth would cut it. We can stealth and unless your popping rd/snare prevention on the way in (unlikley) you can get snared and do nothing about it. This is one of the reasons I would like to do more whilst in stealth.

Order as a whole already has a dozen snares/perma snares and rkds all in the name of combating shamy and herders

Now, yet another option is needed?

I agree with Ten, Snares,cc and lock down can be gotten from a group.

CC is not an underlying issue of why the WH is meh,

I love how people don't bother reading what you write, this is why I don't bother posting on forums.

Didn't ask for another snare, I just stated mobility is an issue for wh/we, more so former imo, in larger fights. But our existing one does need work imo, the from the sides or back seemed reasonable, but the side component doesn't work or didn't get applied in the end.

You can't use all those tools you just mentioned whilst stealthed, but stealth is your only protection, as a light armoured class, going in. So whilst everyone is damaging a target having preloaded anti cc, I'm burning the anti cc as I pop out. After that initial engagement, if you used anti cc, other classes have more effective gap closers in terms of charge/pounce etc.

Now, you can argue those classes get that as we get stealth, I think stealth is more a compensation for light armour, than mobility. However, if that was the thinking, a tactic or change to stealth that lowered its length to 10 seconds and broke snares on activation, with it's cool down to 10 seconds (cool down applied on exiting, maybe even 5/5), that could work in larger fights. Some sort working that meant some movement and protection between targets in big fights but couldn't be abused in small scale (if that's even a consideration, I'm guessing not)

I agree, WH/WE need some improvements under the RvR point of view.
I'd suggest to increase dodge and disrupt by a significant amonut (33% maybe?) while in incognito, in such a way to avoid AoE damage while steathed, thus making it more viable in big fights. Furthermore, I agree with a small boost in speed (20 %) when you are hidden, or cc immunity, it will significantly increase its use.

In the end, for what regards only WH, the first tree needs some heavy rework, not necessarely AoE, but I have faith in Torque.

The only improvment I would like to see for WH/WE is to reduce the cooldown of stealth.
These classes are all about stealth. They kill with stealth and escape with stealth.
Without it and being the most squishy of all melee classes, they are the first to be focused.
They are not the best at burst, but they are light armored.
IMO it's one of the two: Buff WH/WE damage output to make them assassins, OR reduce the CD of stealth so they are not almost useless for 30 seconds.