MELEE: STR vs WS - Haven't seen this in a while

[Karast]

While Armour is still low its better to go STR.

With WS you'll probs hit better on Tank classes and WP/DOK healers but everything else will be squishy enough with any armour debuff.

And Dwarfs. So basicly 50% of Order (in classes not Meta)

That's just bad information.

Who runs the armor tactic? Really who? Tanky Engi's? IB don't need it and should never run it. Slayers gut their own armor with mechanic which makes it useless. Engi / Runepriest hurt hard from limited tactic choices and often you just can't fit the armor tactic in.

Also WS does nothing against tanks. Anyone can test this. It's not hard. Grab a friend and duel them. Or go out and do some scenarios. WS will not help you any at all against a tank. It will give you a small boost on squishes but that's it.

[Lileldys]

While Armour is still low its better to go STR.

With WS you'll probs hit better on Tank classes and WP/DOK healers but everything else will be squishy enough with any armour debuff.

And Dwarfs. So basicly 50% of Order (in classes not Meta)

That's just bad information.

Who runs the armor tactic? Really who? Tanky Engi's? IB don't need it and should never run it. Slayers gut their own armor with mechanic which makes it useless. Engi / Runepriest hurt hard from limited tactic choices and often you just can't fit the armor tactic in.

Also WS does nothing against tanks. Anyone can test this. It's not hard. Grab a friend and duel them. Or go out and do some scenarios. WS will not help you any at all against a tank. It will give you a small boost on squishes but that's it.

Why not run the armour tacitc on Slayer? 660 armour which stacks with Potion. Its very easy to get close to 75% phys mitigation with armour debuffs on you. This makes you practically unfocusable when you drop rage. Guard + Challenge + 75% phys mitig, yeah, you ain't dying.

[Haojin]

While Armour is still low its better to go STR.

With WS you'll probs hit better on Tank classes and WP/DOK healers but everything else will be squishy enough with any armour debuff.

And Dwarfs. So basicly 50% of Order (in classes not Meta)

That's just bad information.

Who runs the armor tactic? Really who? Tanky Engi's? IB don't need it and should never run it. Slayers gut their own armor with mechanic which makes it useless. Engi / Runepriest hurt hard from limited tactic choices and often you just can't fit the armor tactic in.

Also WS does nothing against tanks. Anyone can test this. It's not hard. Grab a friend and duel them. Or go out and do some scenarios. WS will not help you any at all against a tank. It will give you a small boost on squishes but that's it.

Spoiler:

Not using armor tactic by yourself doesn't mean nobody using it. You should think outside of the pug specs my friend. There are a lot of setups and specs for armor tactic [ and actually it's so damn good for defensive builds/setups ].

Weren't you whining about AM morale pump and Solar Flare is useless ? Please do not make any kind of comments like this unless you make an impact on RvR with your setups.

About the WS, this is just maths, more penetration more damage on armor stacked players. The question is finding "sweetspot".

Thank you.

[dansari]

Yeah I tend to disagree. My dots hit like a truck on my SW when I switched to stacking WS. I have about 50% armor pen in skirmish stance, which is nice when you consider everyone runs armor pots.

Edit: but I'm also capped on BS when I'm in Scout and potted, so I'm not losing anything by stacking WS talis.

[Scrilian]

Had quite a chuckle there about slayers slotting armor tactic, gee i wonder why no one ever uses it. Which brings me to a different point that was going through my mind for the last few months.
Since dps tactics like Riposte or Jagged Edge aren't affected by Rage mechanics and can't crit - why still armor tactic is affected by -50% penalty while in the red Berzerk zone?
Not trying to derail the thread too much

[anarchypark]

SW's Wrist Slash adds 120 WS.
against troll champ dummy, my dmg increased about 40.
I think WS is important only to high crit mdps who already have high STR.
priority is STR imo.
if you target low armor squishes a lot, try WS.

[freshour]

Thanks for all of the answers guys. I think I'll just drop the WS. It takes a lot of effort to get min/max to stack it accordingly and I'm starting to think it is sort of worthless on average.

[Ugle]

Tried asking this in another thread, anyone tested WS impact differences on insta casts, dots and longer cast time skills? Ie. Coefficiencts. Or is this static?

[Karast]

Not using armor tactic by yourself doesn't mean nobody using it. You should think outside of the pug specs my friend. There are a lot of setups and specs for armor tactic [ and actually it's so damn good for defensive builds/setups ].

Weren't you whining about AM morale pump and Solar Flare is useless ? Please do not make any kind of comments like this unless you make an impact on RvR with your setups.
About the WS, this is just maths, more penetration more damage on armor stacked players. The question is finding "sweetspot".

Thank you.

#1 the AM morale pump is ****. As is Solar Flare. It is not debatable unless you got some new proof to provide. It has been tested and retested and no one serious runs it, no one. Name an order warband using it? Every time you all get called out on it and the fact that it doesn't work at all you just ignore it and claim it does a few weeks later. Where is the order warband running 14 AM to get a knight to M4 for stripping? Where is an order warband that can get to M4 when you gotta deal with fast M2 from every organized destro WB out there right now.

If you really think it works and can make it work prove it. How many times are you going to claim this type of crap but never back it up because you like the current morale pump status quo. If you like the current status quo that's fine. But don't spout theory-crafting junk as a viable meta build, when you haven't done any leg work testing it at all.

I have actually done the math and run the numbers. You can do the same on WS. Find a tank. Hit him with a skill. Look at the damage. Respec into WS, get a WS buff do it again, and compare the difference. Do this again and again. Compare 200 damage bonus with 250 WS and 720 WS. Track the numbers find the increase and then compare with those 500 stats in main stats.

You do not have to trust me. You can easily test this all yourselves. I urge you to do so. Test stuff, see if it works.

[roadkillrobin]

Not using armor tactic by yourself doesn't mean nobody using it. You should think outside of the pug specs my friend. There are a lot of setups and specs for armor tactic [ and actually it's so damn good for defensive builds/setups ].

Weren't you whining about AM morale pump and Solar Flare is useless ? Please do not make any kind of comments like this unless you make an impact on RvR with your setups.
About the WS, this is just maths, more penetration more damage on armor stacked players. The question is finding "sweetspot".

Thank you.

#1 the AM morale pump is ****. As is Solar Flare. It is not debatable unless you got some new proof to provide. It has been tested and retested and no one serious runs it, no one. Name an order warband using it? Every time you all get called out on it and the fact that it doesn't work at all you just ignore it and claim it does a few weeks later. Where is the order warband running 14 AM to get a knight to M4 for stripping? Where is an order warband that can get to M4 when you gotta deal with fast M2 from every organized destro WB out there right now.

Imagine this AM is boosting a tank. Happy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKeOhk5 ... anielJ.h.c

Anyway, your confusing having acess to stuff with don't use stuff. WS have better effect on higher armor. Also your math seems way off. 1000 WS gives 30 pentration? I'm guessing you forgot to deduct the mitigration for toughness or something.