Return of Reckoning

flatfoot1987 wrote:Good thing I rolled a BG recently, the future stuff looks promising.

More to the point - Halt, Fool! is intriguing. Цhile I'm all up for mirroring some of the IB stuff, a straight copy of cave-in with all the stuff available from the mid tree nowadays sounds a bit OP.

As for more utility from Dark Protector - this may sound strange but I believe that initial lack of usefeul things in that department has something to do with the class concept/lore. Blackguard is a rather evil and arrogant guy who's not supposed to babysit some inferiors. Obviosuly MMO gamers couldn't be bothered with that kind of things, but still.

I get what you are saying and I agree I think that was the motivation behind it. However, maintaining balance outweighs lore..

Considering current game "lore" includes DoK and WP hiding in backline Hotting up people instead of smashing things in the frontline, White Lions hunting with "tamed" pets, a lot of slayers who do not seek glorious death...
a few BGs helping their comrades in battle might not be the greatest breach in the lore.

BG might be good (it's decent, got mine at rr46), but what I notice is that WBs prefer having Blorcs and Chosen for a reason, which is fast M4 pumping.
BGs most awesome 2h tree also causes them to lose KD if they go 2h, which is kinda "essential" for tanks.

BG good, Blorc better, Chosen most beloved

Strength is relative. Ironbreaker and BG are the most fun tanks to play IMO, and they do their roles well, but compared to the other classes they compete with for slots in groups, they lack either damage (relative to sm/blorc) or easy no effort aoe buffs/ debuffs and super punt (chosen/kotbs). It doesnt help that morale pump is pretty powerful and BG doesnt get one. Nor does 2h BG, which is way more fun to play IMO, get a KD, which kinda totally sucks. IB is in a better spot solely cuz order tanks lack morale pump anyways, and people remember 2h IB being powerhouses on live, so theyre more amenable to giving them a spot in group on RoR.

Torquemadra wrote:Just to clarify, BG isnt weak, its an excellent and best designed of the tanks and im sure its no co incidence it was the last class designed either. It works well, its just not easy, if its being overshadowed, well thats another, more complex issue.

oh i by no means think they are weak. i thoroughly enjoy my BG. i do think however the BGs overall group utility could be better.

Aurandilaz wrote:BG might be good (it's decent, got mine at rr46), but what I notice is that WBs prefer having Blorcs and Chosen for a reason, which is fast M4 pumping.
BGs most awesome 2h tree also causes them to lose KD if they go 2h, which is kinda "essential" for tanks.

BG good, Blorc better, Chosen most beloved

Bg is aswell the most tanky of all the 2hs tanks in destru by a long shot . and probably the most efficent on that role . i dont think alot of people realize , what happens when u got a tank with spameable outgoing heal debuff and a mdps inc debuff intop of a healer . The debate about 2hs borcs pumping more dmg than bgs is aswell kinda hillarious because u prety much can see bos getting poped rather easy while BG keep on fighting . and more than often outdamaging black orcs due to a way way more superior staying power .

Aswell having probably one of the best and underrated abilitys in a 6 man enviroment wich is choking fury .

Arteker616 wrote:

Aurandilaz wrote:BG might be good (it's decent, got mine at rr46), but what I notice is that WBs prefer having Blorcs and Chosen for a reason, which is fast M4 pumping.
BGs most awesome 2h tree also causes them to lose KD if they go 2h, which is kinda "essential" for tanks.

BG good, Blorc better, Chosen most beloved

Bg is aswell the most tanky of all the 2hs tanks in destru by a long shot . and probably the most efficent on that role . i dont think alot of people realize , what happens when u got a tank with spameable outgoing heal debuff and a mdps inc debuff intop of a healer . The debate about 2hs borcs pumping more dmg than bgs is aswell kinda hillarious because u prety much can see bos getting poped rather easy while BG keep on fighting . and more than often outdamaging black orcs due to a way way more superior staying power .

Aswell having probably one of the best and underrated abilitys in a 6 man enviroment wich is choking fury .

exept that you exel only at that, so you just have to be keep away from healers with snares (point you do not have a snare immunity and cc away from being aggressive make you melee or rdps dead).

Your niche from 3rd mastery is hardcountered and the outcoming heal debuff dont need to be spamable, actually a Choppa/WE can also provide it and bury it under other tons of dots if necessary. You also loose like double the time keep yourself selfbuffed than other tanks.

Torquemadra wrote:Just to clarify, BG isnt weak, its an excellent and best designed of the tanks and im sure its no co incidence it was the last class designed either.

Hardly anyone playing the class and BGs never holding a spot in a 6man says you are incorrect

It's actually a terrible designed class from the get-go and had to be almoast completly redsign after it's release. It didn't have the dark protector mechanic, didn't have the armor debuff etz. And still after those redesigns and mutliple class patches later it's till lacking. The one thing it had was it's long range punt wich Chosen didn't get until much later in the game. Well we all know that was horrible mistake made by BioMythic,

To make the class viable in smale scale, Chosen should have their long range punt removed. I'd say Kotbs needs that cut aswell. But thats a topic for another discussion.
To make the class more viable for large scale it needs something uniqe. I've sugested before giving em a Shout that strips % of morales based on how much hate you have built up (an mirrored to IB) With a longer CD, (something like 2-3min) This will deffintly make so you wanna runt multiples in each warbands.

Torquemadra wrote:Just to clarify, BG isnt weak, its an excellent and best designed of the tanks and im sure its no co incidence it was the last class designed either. It works well, its just not easy, if its being overshadowed, well thats another, more complex issue.

Half the problem is that most people won't even acknowledge this. They see the ridiculousness of the other tanks, and mara's as normal or common place. They can't see BG as being in a good state, and would riot across the forms if tactics and abilities were toned down so the others better match it.

Balance can't be fixed with buffing alone. That is how this problem got to where it is in the first place.