Return of Reckoning

xanderous wrote:Ok so i have been playing chosen for a little while now and i have a few questions to ask regarding what i should be doing, first of.......

What stats should i focus in, strength, weapon skill and toughness or strength, toughness and wounds?

Which masteries should i focus on, link any builds that are good for tanking please, i use sword and board btw, thanks.

touch of palsy and seeping wounds + ravage spam are your assist combo in any build, quickened discord remove half the CD from touch of palsy which is incredible good (if you want an off tactic which do not lower your def take this but you need to have a decent dmg from touch of palsy otherwise is wasted).

the best dedicated s+b support tool is destinate to victory; there is not much x se good tactic for 2h, cripple strike require you to crit that mean either use another tactic to also increase the crit (and loose 1 spot) or stack crit in renown, tough in 2h you gain 1 slot from loosing mixed defense but enemy can stack anti crit tools + dosen'tstack with challenge). theorically you can use it also with s+b as is not stricly restricted to 2h buth you need to invest point in the left mastery so bear in mind what you loose and what you gain.

At higer level you can definetly try to drop mixed defense or rugged for support tactics (ignore power from the gods, it was nerfed and is a ghost of what was before).

warped flesh is another general good tactic for any build, provided you have enough toughness to use it well; don't bother use it if you go around with less than 700 tough in t4.

Oppression is definetly not bad but is not so good either; rather kobs vigilance is op and oppression dmg reduction component last very few only 50% update time for a value that is not even 1/3 of the koks vigilance. It also require to hit; if you ever spec for this keep in mind that shatter ench and defense **** this skill for good so it would be preferable first buff suppression and have at least a 40% parry in 2h or 60% in s+b then risk to even be hit from the back for huge ammount but land a safe hit where enemy can not parry. (kobs just press and put up a medium finger at you instead...).

tzeench reflection kinda usefull only in rvr if you wanna interrupt bw aoe (tough there are better efficent way to do that with out give a immunity)

whitering blow, use it only if a BG mate is there with double ap drain to max the ap remove or no other tool are avaiable and you want debuff

synphoned energy tactic and unstopable juggernaut are really good for small force vs zerg due to their kite help. (tough right now there is a renown skill called quick escape with no reason to not take which basically is better than both tactic (didn't test if it stack with synphoned energy but is like have a 5th tactic for just 10 renown point). the renown skill is under a period of test if it will be keep you can definetly drop both tactics unless you want a heals on demand which synphoned energy provide and /or it stack with quick escape.

rending blade is both good offensivly (is undefitable 9 target spiritual dmg ) and defensivly (apply cripple strike with out miss chance). Definetly make more efficent the cripple strike use with out the need to use cleave (which the only use is for apply criple strike because it remove the miss chance component of the tacti and leave only the need to crit).

hastened dismissal give you access to better KB, most usefull in sc to remove pesky tank and drop ppl into your realm to st nuke em. Can be chained with KD+ any kind of spped proc to peel enemy 1 by 1 whenever they stay still in 1 point (wc, flag) and neither than you push.

Hold the line: is spamable and give you a free 45% dodge/disrupt (requrie shield) also buff ally for 15% (stack 3 times for a max if 45%not tank ally) and 75% on you and all other tanks using hold the line. Also work out of party/wb.


for auras;
-magic resistences one mandatory unless 2x chosen in group which then mean the worst will not be used or a shammy if you wanna trade some def for dmg.
-toughness one is the second mandatory( if you have to choose and pick one between str and tough toughness is always a better choice because it debuff enemy and so increase all source of dmg while str debuff only melee and incrase only your party dmg
-str aura can be taken as third aura if you face a lot of melee which is actually of great benefith as debuff not few dmg
-as third aura option ap aura (left mastery) , heal debuff aura (right mastery) are both good choice; the heal debuff is usefull if you have 2x sorc and so no other heal debuff or for aoe wb play (and definetly when the situation is a heal fest.
-regen aura can also be good if you face a lot of mixed attack type
-magic return dmg aura is best used again heavy BW party or in rvr.

If you have a BO you can drop all stat auras (tough/str ) as the buff /debuff will be provide by the BO. You can then use 2 support aura from the remaining ones (ignore spiritual aoe dmg from left mastery, it give you a very few dmg increase and only make you're sc rooster cooler with no real benefith). Tough if the word is full of chosen and you do a 2h cripple strike build left +right masterys) you can take it into consideration.
This , backlash, bane shield, discordant fluctuation (magic dmg return aura)+ rending blade spam under choppa fasta(remove rending blade CD) can put up a serious ammount of dmg.

Generic s/b def build http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 5:;0:0:0:0:
for fun 2h offensive/hybrid build http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 3:;0:0:0:0:
tri spec (cripple strike for either 2h/s+b) http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 5:;0:0:0:0:
def 2h http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 0:4781:0:0:
PVE main tank: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 5:;0:0:0:0:

Thank you for the advice, you have given me a lot to work with

Great info in here thanks a lot for the post

cemen wrote:

OgiWanBG wrote: Any suggestions/builds orientated more for DPSing ?
Thanks

For chosen youll want to go 2h, try using the run speed proc sword or the defensive proc sword. You want to get as much str as possible, 1050 buffed being preferable, but at least 1000 to help with weaponskill/parry strike-through. easy way is to run 3pc merc, 2pc duelist and full RR points into might. use str jewelry but make sure to prioritize corporeal and elemental resist. you want those around 950+ each, buffed with your aura. Also stack parry as a secondary stat. You get crit from items and tactics.

Here's the renown spec you want to shoot for. Get quick escape before the last level of might, IMO.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;500 ... 0001000000

Here's career spec:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 0:;0:0:0:0:

on the tactics, you can swap rugged for critical suppression or quickened discord (quickened discord adds a lot of dps) but I would run rugged until you can get you armor to 4000 and your resists capped.


Basic gameplay tactics are: find an mdps and guard them, use rending blade every time it's up to keep crippling strikes applied. stack seeping wound and tough of palsy before you dps a character, unless they are below 30% hp... in which case spam DD attacks (tooth of tnzeetch, ravage) to try and burst them down.

If you're the only tank with a bunch of rdps, just try and keep pressure on the enemy squishy rdps or healers, and allow you RDPS space to kill over extending enemies.

This is one of the worst posts I have seen on these forums. Take everything this guys says and do the OPPOSITE.

-You want to get as much str as possible (FALSE)
- full RR points into might (FALSE)
- use str jewelry (FALSE)
- swap rugged for... (FALSE)


Here is your basic guide for a 2H:
1) Use all renown on parry + dodge/disrupt.
2) Stack Toughness to 600(with Rugged + Toughness Aura) and get your Parry to atleast 35% (RR+gear) and minimally 8k HP. Rest can go to STR. (youll sit in the ~700 range for STR at RR40) Your DPS is a "supplement" to MDPS players, never forget this.
3) Grab the defensive Weapon (Here we agree) the one that on defense proc that adds Parry/dodge/dirupt.
4) Find nearest MDPS Guard them and make a macro that is /Assist. Put this on Mouse 4 or Mouse 5 and SPAM that while guarding your MDPS (to assist them).
5) Youll want to spam Rending, Suppression and Sever Blessing. Using AoE taunt (debuff) as well as taunt when appropriate. You can pepper in some Ravage if you want.

Thats how you play a 2H tank. There is no such thing as a DPS Chosen and if this is how you play or what you want, please delete your Chosen and reroll a Marauder. They are not only WAY better than the above spec "cemen" told you, you will also have better debuffs AND your party wont accidentally mistake you for playing a tank...

If you STILL wont do that, then please re-roll a Knight of the Blazing Sun on order so you can get crushed BECAUSE your playing a "Im Deeps Bro" Tank.

As for Spec, youll go up the left tree and snag the 15% more crit + Crip Strikes + Rending Blade. Then go up the first RIGHT tree until you get quake. Quake can be used to proc Crip Strikes as well as catch players trying to kite you. I dont open with Quake because it gives immunity. Ill use Blast Wave and Rending to keep Crip Strikes up and only under rare situations Quake if needed.

th3gatekeeper wrote:

cemen wrote:

OgiWanBG wrote: Any suggestions/builds orientated more for DPSing ?
Thanks

For chosen youll want to go 2h, try using the run speed proc sword or the defensive proc sword. You want to get as much str as possible, 1050 buffed being preferable, but at least 1000 to help with weaponskill/parry strike-through. easy way is to run 3pc merc, 2pc duelist and full RR points into might. use str jewelry but make sure to prioritize corporeal and elemental resist. you want those around 950+ each, buffed with your aura. Also stack parry as a secondary stat. You get crit from items and tactics.

Here's the renown spec you want to shoot for. Get quick escape before the last level of might, IMO.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;500 ... 0001000000

Here's career spec:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... 0:;0:0:0:0:

on the tactics, you can swap rugged for critical suppression or quickened discord (quickened discord adds a lot of dps) but I would run rugged until you can get you armor to 4000 and your resists capped.


Basic gameplay tactics are: find an mdps and guard them, use rending blade every time it's up to keep crippling strikes applied. stack seeping wound and tough of palsy before you dps a character, unless they are below 30% hp... in which case spam DD attacks (tooth of tnzeetch, ravage) to try and burst them down.

If you're the only tank with a bunch of rdps, just try and keep pressure on the enemy squishy rdps or healers, and allow you RDPS space to kill over extending enemies.

This is one of the worst posts I have seen on these forums. Take everything this guys says and do the OPPOSITE.

-You want to get as much str as possible (FALSE)
- full RR points into might (FALSE)
- use str jewelry (FALSE)
- swap rugged for... (FALSE)


Here is your basic guide for a 2H:
1) Use all renown on parry + dodge/disrupt.
2) Stack Toughness to 600(with Rugged + Toughness Aura) and get your Parry to atleast 35% (RR+gear) and minimally 8k HP. Rest can go to STR. (youll sit in the ~700 range for STR at RR40) Your DPS is a "supplement" to MDPS players, never forget this.
3) Grab the defensive Weapon (Here we agree) the one that on defense proc that adds Parry/dodge/dirupt.
4) Find nearest MDPS Guard them and make a macro that is /Assist. Put this on Mouse 4 or Mouse 5 and SPAM that while guarding your MDPS (to assist them).
5) Youll want to spam Rending, Suppression and Sever Blessing. Using AoE taunt (debuff) as well as taunt when appropriate. You can pepper in some Ravage if you want.

Thats how you play a 2H tank. There is no such thing as a DPS Chosen and if this is how you play or what you want, please delete your Chosen and reroll a Marauder. They are not only WAY better than the above spec "cemen" told you, you will also have better debuffs AND your party wont accidentally mistake you for playing a tank...

If you STILL wont do that, then please re-roll a Knight of the Blazing Sun on order so you can get crushed BECAUSE your playing a "Im Deeps Bro" Tank.

As for Spec, youll go up the left tree and snag the 15% more crit + Crip Strikes + Rending Blade. Then go up the first RIGHT tree until you get quake. Quake can be used to proc Crip Strikes as well as catch players trying to kite you. I dont open with Quake because it gives immunity. Ill use Blast Wave and Rending to keep Crip Strikes up and only under rare situations Quake if needed.

Cemen's suggestion makes sense as he is addressing DPS...not tanky 2h. Chosens have way higher damage potential than knights when 2h and specc'ed for it (you can't really call either a viable DPS eh)...Is that even up for debate?

Tankbeardz wrote: Cemen's suggestion makes sense as he is addressing DPS...not tanky 2h. Chosens have way higher damage potential than knights when 2h and specc'ed for it (you can't really call either a viable DPS eh)...Is that even up for debate?

You hit the nail on the head "you can't really call either a viable DPS"

If he wants to "DPS" I stand by my comment: reroll a Mara.

If he "wants to still be kinda tanky though" then reroll a Mara and max your parry/dodge/disrupt and throw armor Talis in your armor. Youll be as tanky as a 2H Chosen (who maxes STR) but have WAY more party utility (and AoE detaunt and sprint btw too) and offer WAY more to your party via all the debuffs and likely have more FUN doing it too all without the risk of someone actually thinking your playing a tank, because 2H STR Chosens are NOT tanks and are a worthless slot in any group IMO where as a "tanky" mara STILL has a spot in almost any group. Sure its not the "optimal 2-2-2" class, but neither is a str stacked Chosen LOL... And I would rather have a full armor tali/parry/dodge/disrupt Mara than a 2H STR tank in ANY group I was in....

Oh.... and did I mention Mara is a more FUN Dps class too? If tanks reliably did their jobs and stopped tryin to be "DPS" classes, this game would be 400% more fun for everyone.

If someone choose to roll chosen as 2h lol dps full off - ill revage you till death - hes looking for easy gameplay. Mara is not easy gameplay:) Besides, chosen apearance>mara apearance.
That I can understand, but it doesnt mean I`ll respect that player. I ignore him all the way, wont assist, wont heal etc.

Telperien wrote:If someone choose to roll chosen as 2h lol dps full off - ill revage you till death - hes looking for easy gameplay. Mara is not easy gameplay:) Besides, chosen apearance>mara apearance.
That I can understand, but it doesnt mean I`ll respect that player. I ignore him all the way, wont assist, wont heal etc.

What is hard about Mara? They are VERY easy to play...

Wound debuff -> armor debuff -> heal debuff -> toughness debuff -> Spam toughness debuff.

You dont need to manage your "mutations" all you need to do is use AOE detaunt and swap to Monstro stance if you get getting focused, then sprint away. Thats pretty much it... sure you can start to pepper in things like the disarm, and KD etc and especially start throwing "pull" out there on squishy targets too.

Its no more complicated than a Chosen 2H.

Wounds debuff -> Slow -> Suppression -> Taunt -> Ravage -> Spam ravage.

The difference?

Mara has more party utility and better debuffs and better escape.

So the ONLY thing a 2h Chosen has over Mara is the "looks" aspect. Ill give you that, but the "fun" aspect I say Mara is WAY more fun to play. The damage, mobility and utility are HUGE.

...why is the Mara spamming toughness debuff? You definitely wanna use Impale as a filler over that. Mara also includes stance swapping, using self buffs on a timer, better positioning and situational awareness, etc. Now, its not like any of that is difficult per se, but it is more so than a chosen, which simply has less active abilities and conditionals it has to worry about.

I play both, though I play thr Chosen more, and I definitely play my chosen like how you say you play yours. But Marauder, though not very complex, is more so than 2h chosen. And, I agree, more fun. If I could make my Marauder look like my chosen, I would probably never play the Chosen.

But Fashionhammer is the true end game, as we all know.

GodlessCrom wrote:...why is the Mara spamming toughness debuff? You definitely wanna use Impale as a filler over that. Mara also includes stance swapping, using self buffs on a timer, better positioning and situational awareness, etc. Now, its not like any of that is difficult per se, but it is more so than a chosen, which simply has less active abilities and conditionals it has to worry about.

I play both, though I play thr Chosen more, and I definitely play my chosen like how you say you play yours. But Marauder, though not very complex, is more so than 2h chosen. And, I agree, more fun. If I could make my Marauder look like my chosen, I would probably never play the Chosen.

But Fashionhammer is the true end game, as we all know.

Im saying to get good "bang for buck" also if you want a "tanky" setup youll likely run Scything Talons which gives you a CRAP ton of WS/Initiative. Youll likely have over 400 WS which combined with a 1500+ armor debuff is more than enough to kill almost any target. That, factor in the fact that TB and tainted Claw are on 5 sec CD timers. By the time you get in 1 and MAYBE 2 Corruption, itll be time to pop those bad boys again (if your not using things like Mouth of Tz, or Mutated Energy or Death Grip, or Gut Ripper - which are all fantastic utility abilities)... Wasting GCD to try and hit them with 1 Impale is worthless IMO ESPECIALLY considering you have to be behind your target to get the armor ignore but again... because of high WS and armor debuff, it really doesnt add much damage to make up for the loss of actual damage vs the other skills (unless its a tank), so ive found its overall a DPS loss.

Yes, you can swap Monstro to pick up Ferocious Assault as well as pepper in things LIKE Pulverize to play OPTIMALLY.

My POINT in this isnt arguing over "how to play a Mara". My POINT is: "If you want a TANKY character that has a main focus of DEALING DAMAGE, A chosen isnt the best class for you". Thats my point.

If I had a choice between:
1) A Mara who stayed in Savagery spamming TB, Cutting Claw, Tainted Claw and Corruption and RARELY ever used his other abilities besides AOE detaunt and Sprint...

VS

2) A Chosen specced full STR, forgoing Parry and LIKELY (I wont argue this as its basically fact) not ever really using guard... and buy using I mean assisting off a MDPS and staying within 30 feet to actually not, not press guard once and never worry about it again....

I would GLADLY take the #1 Mara any day of the week.

I cant tell you how sick I am of seeing 2H tanks who DONT use guard because when they do they die too quickly because they dont stack stats like Parry/wounds/toughness BECAUSE they wanted more DPS. Also how ill be in a party with 3 tanks and none of them use guard... then the RDPS or MDPS or healers get BLOWN UP and are pissed because they thought because they had 3 tanks with them, guard would be going around.... That "metality" affects play style. People tend to play more aggressive when they have 3 tanks in a party because LOGIC tells you "one of them will toss guard on me" but it doesnt happen... because 2H "DPS" tanks dont use guard and dont want to stop DPSing to use guard and likely cant sustain long even IF they used Guard because they dont spec for Parry.


BOTTOM LINE: If you are not going to make "Guard" your #1 priority and want "Damage" to be your #1 priority and still be tanky, then reroll a Mara, spec tanky via feats/ talis/RR points, its not hard to play, especially if you just want to button mash you can do that on a Mara just like on a Chosen and you will have MORE fun and your party will be better for it.