Return of Reckoning

You can't compare the power of an M3 snare on kotbs to non morale snares

Ap is a factor you should consider for every abillity. It doesn't mather if certain group comps struggle less with AP or not. AP is a factor in this game. Theres a reason why things have different ap costs. Stance is an issue coz of the low duration, you need ignore EVERY single abillty from Gud Plan to keep it up and it does limits the reactionary use of it, due to the stance limitation.

Ofc it outclasses all the snares. It's the highest investment for a AoE snare in the game.

Is it broken tho? No. Aslongs as the other AoE snares exist this one is pefectly fine. All melee dps classes have a skill that ignores snares. So saying Order melee isn't a viable choise due to AoE snares are just stupid. Especially since the have a melee dps that are almoast unnafected by snares with WL.

roadkillrobin wrote:Ap is a factor you should consider for every abillity. It doesn't mather if certain group comps struggle less with AP or not. AP is a factor in this game. Theres a reason why things have different ap costs. Stance is an issue coz of the low duration, you need ignore EVERY single abillty from Gud Plan to keep it up and it does limits the reactionary use of it, due to the stance limitation.

Ofc it outclasses all the snares. It's the highest investment for a AoE snare in the game.

Is it broken tho? No. Aslongs as the other AoE snares exist this one is pefectly fine. All melee dps classes have a skill that ignores snares. So saying Order melee isn't a viable choise due to AoE snares are just stupid. Especially since the have a melee dps that are almoast unnafected by snares with WL.

First of all 1 ZL in your group and AP is not a problem at all. For large scale the only other 'gud plan' skill you want to use is the AoE knockback, the rest is all useless anyway. That is easily doable by good usage of Changin' Da Plan. Apart from being an AoE slow it also increases cast time which again is very good to counter Close Quarters tactic on anyone of Order or Focused Mind of healers. For large scale it is definitely very broken.

To answer the question of the OP, yes BO could still solo tank in 3-2-1 groups, but would get overshadowed even more by Chosen that it already does in that department.

Importance of AOE snare in solo tanking.

and not a single word about Slice Through?

It doesn't mather if you have tools tht increase AP regen. AP is stll a factor, so large factor that you bring a class to help deal with it. That means AP is still a conideration. A double Shaman group wich your Guild seems to have very vocal opinion about atm doesn't have a Zealot for example.

And yes its a very strong Snare + some minor other utillity benefits. But like I said. Its also the highest investment AoE snare in the game.
And it have its drawbacks with the Plan restriction. It doesn't mather how litte of restriction it is. Its still a restriction, compared to get to have it open to cast at any time.

The tactic + skill is ballanced externally. The only argument imo i would consider would to make it cleanseble. Wich I think is fair. But then I think Landmine tactic should be aswell.

Gerv wrote:Simple and clear, do you BO players believe that if the AoE snare was adjusted to have a 50% up-time and still hit the 9 targets, along with the snares/staggers/roots avalible from other dps nad healer classes, be able to continue to Solo tank 3-2-1 groups?

3-2-1 groups with a BO. Has anyone ever seen one?

To my knowledge only order can run 3-2-1 and with a Kniggit.

If you would be fortunate enough to see a 3-2-1 des in game I'd vager it is built around a Chosen.

Atropik wrote:

Importance of AOE snare in solo tanking.

and not a single word about Slice Through?

Forgive me; I don't play either class, but it looks like Slice Through only targets 3 players, and decreases your damage by 10%. Whereas Big Brawlin has no target restriction (maybe it's 9 in line with other aoe?) and also gives a 25% increase to build times. Obviously one requires four points and the other requires 8, but they're not the same.

Yes, the only solo tanking I've seen on Destro (Teefz/Spectrasoul/TheOddOne for example) was run with a Chosen. I think with the aura and wounds debuff (and similar group utility from a Knight) is unbeatable in a 3-1-2.

We are straying from the Op, and guys, let's not **** up the few sanctioned "balance" discussions shall we?

If a reduction on uptime is seen as too big a nerf hammer, what about moving it up the tree? If placed at the 11pt tactic slot, that would preclude a lot of the DPS BOs from wanting it preRR50ish. If you wanted the KD as well, then you can't get any of the super Brawler abilities(as opposed to now, you can get AoE snare/KD/NotinDaFace at 60 or 50/gear)

Now, does the ability/tactic merit an 11th slot placement? Not imo. But it would be a nerf that wouldn't break the BO, and would lead to less BO snare spam.

Agreed. Or you slightly decrease its strength -- dropping it to a lower move speed (i.e. 40% -> 25%).

Gerv wrote:Simple and clear, do you BO players believe that if the AoE snare was adjusted to have a 50% up-time and still hit the 9 targets, along with the snares/staggers/roots avalible from other dps nad healer classes, be able to continue to Solo tank 3-2-1 groups?

Imho BOs are the second-worst class for solo tanking (only better than SMs, and only because of the AoE snare). Even BG's (so-called "worst" tank in RoR) are better since they can have a AoE snare, super punt and 5s KD in the same spec.

So to answer your question: no, they won't be able to continue to solo tank, since they already struggle to solo tank in the first place. If you are concerned with AoE snares in general (nerfing or removing them), I would include KotBS/IB/Dok, while making sure BOs retain something that makes them unique and useful.