Return of Reckoning

megadeath wrote:...

The only issue i see with BG now is that CD requires a great weapon and stun requires a shield.

While it is not the only issue with BG, that would be a very good start. 2 ways I can think of doing it :
1- Tie the KD to parry instead of block.
2- Replace a useless ability in the mastery tree, give a KD with no tie to mechanic, like IB has.

the KD should definitely proc off of a parry as well. The 10% crit debuff that they give is the best debuff the BG brings to the table, but if you take that then you can't knock people down. Maybe it should even proc off of a disrupt honestly. All other tanks have a kd they can use at any time, no defensive proc needed. The only other one that isnt immediately ready is the SM or BO one, but it just requires you to use 2 abilities to get to it.

Eathisword wrote:

megadeath wrote:...

The only issue i see with BG now is that CD requires a great weapon and stun requires a shield.

While it is not the only issue with BG, that would be a very good start. 2 ways I can think of doing it :
1- Tie the KD to parry instead of block.
2- Replace a useless ability in the mastery tree, give a KD with no tie to mechanic, like IB has.

Appreciate you giving your 2 cents here, especially as an IB. Seeing you and Mkatew doing work on us is actually what made me curious about making some destro tank duo work well. I'm having a hard time finding one that would work as perfectly as yours does though. Not discrediting the skill that you two have at all. But man do your two classes work well together.

That the destruction faction has an abundance of wounds debuffs doesn't mean the the BG is weak. It was just bad game design by the original developers. The IB and the BG the class mechanics look the same, but actually they work differently. You have to play them both to get the difference as it is hard to describe, not only compare them on paper like many people do.

neokingdom wrote:the KD should definitely proc off of a parry as well. The 10% crit debuff that they give is the best debuff the BG brings to the table, but if you take that then you can't knock people down. Maybe it should even proc off of a disrupt honestly. All other tanks have a kd they can use at any time, no defensive proc needed. The only other one that isnt immediately ready is the SM or BO one, but it just requires you to use 2 abilities to get to it.

A proposal for a potential 5 second knockdown on parry (or even parry and disrupt) on the only class that can make itself immune to detaunts and has generally a very good anti-caster capabilities (including a disrupt tactic) will probably not get alive through the balance subforum.

About knockdowns with a requirement:
The IB core knockdown requires a shield and a successful block, not that this would be much of a disadvantage for a tank who's guarding/switching guard on focused targets; though i can imagine that a BG knockdown on disrupt would helpful in 1vs1 situations or if the BG thinks his primary role is that of a DPS...

Luth wrote:only class that can make itself immune to detaunts

For some reason only RoR staff brings that up. I'm yet to meet a single BG that wastes a point on that tactic.

quick solution to make IB/BG more viable is buff/debuff stacking
but like most quick solution does, it will make more problems
was it called stat inflation?

I think buffer/debuffer is not a main role in this game,
it's sub role, mixed in tank/dps/heal roles
and potions killed stat buff skills
Dark Protector/Oath Friend are kinda buffer mechanic
which don't have much merit currently

Maybe halve the buff/debuff values and make them stack with other class?
It will avoid stat inflation

megadeath wrote:

Luth wrote:only class that can make itself immune to detaunts

For some reason only RoR staff brings that up. I'm yet to meet a single BG that wastes a point on that tactic.

It's good against in pugs but in premade play it is a useless tactic.

megadeath wrote:

Luth wrote:only class that can make itself immune to detaunts

For some reason only RoR staff brings that up. I'm yet to meet a single BG that wastes a point on that tactic.

Actually standard dps SnB spec for BG requires certian core tactics
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... 3:;0:0:0:0:

It's helpful vs the AoE nature of detaunts but I rarely see people spec so high to get disrupt tactic as they will be forging too many other things, people put too much value in bgs anti caster stuff, bar soul killer the rest is more solo puffing stuff, their are just much better stuff to slot

And if BG was so strong that with it's anti caster abilites so great then we would see them more in parties

Any buffs to BG kd will be met with cries from RPs


However trading a 5s KDalong with surviveabilty and utlity of shields is not value atm

So what if the kd was not 5s? What if the kd could proc on parry and had only a 3s duration? Like ibs shield kd?

TenTonHammer wrote:

megadeath wrote:

Luth wrote:only class that can make itself immune to detaunts

For some reason only RoR staff brings that up. I'm yet to meet a single BG that wastes a point on that tactic.

Actually standard dps SnB spec for BG requires certian core tactics
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... 3:;0:0:0:0:

It's helpful vs the AoE nature of detaunts but I rarely see people spec so high to get disrupt tactic as they will be forging too many other things, people put too much value in bgs anti caster stuff, bar soul killer the rest is more solo puffing stuff, their are just much better stuff to slot

And if BG was so strong that with it's anti caster abilites so great then we would see them more in parties

Any buffs to BG kd will be met with cries from RPs


However trading a 5s KDalong with surviveabilty and utlity of shields is not value atm

So what if the kd was not 5s? What if the kd could proc on parry and had only a 3s duration? Like ibs shield kd?

I don't think anything that should be done to BG should nerf S/B spec. Any changes to the BG should only effect the 2h spec. I propose we change Blade of Ruin into a 2h ability, leave the damage as is, and give it a KD that can only be activated on parry. This way it gives more viability to the 2h BG whilst not changing a thing for the S/B BG

So kinda like a cave in mirror that requires parry?

Is it even possible to make an ability have a double requirement? Both parry and 2H?