Destro vs Order

[Toldavf]

Massive over prevalence of CC and snares over on order espically those rKD's

I can agree with the aoe snare part.

[Gachimuchi]

I don't really know what to say to you about this, order has about 50rr worth of stats extra in every party with meta comps.

You are looking at things in a vacuum here. If by meta comp you mean a comp that has knight, they either have 10% more offensive crit up all the time or 10% heal/offensive crit up 95% of the time. Which in your oversimplified view of things is more like 30ish renown points.

Destru tactics are more selfish wheras order tactics are more group oriented. Marauder for example has 20% extra crit up 95% of the time... in your book that would be equivalent to 50-60 points. WE has +15% crit at max mechanic with a tactic with no downside. You do not see these kind of tactics on Order MDPS.

you missed shadow warrior. it also gives the PARTY a crit buff. these all STACK(this is the main problem right here)

Knight dirty tricks + Leading shots = 25% crit. On the other hand: Knight Encouraged aim + Leading Shots is 25% offensive crit and + does give 25% offensive crit and 15% heal crit. This carries the downside of having to run a Shadow Warrior in a comp which is inherently not a meta group.

the "anti crit" tactics you speak of are used when the tanks spec two hander, and effect only themselves. not the PARTY

did i mention all the order crit buffs stack? for the whole party? excluding the IB.

crit was also just nerfed across the board, which is an order buff. so the devs don't like crit stacking but they wont look at these tactics. that are only available on ONE SIDE.

this is not whining or any of that do not take any of this personally, i will still be bodying order into infinity until the server goes down again. but if you play both sides and learn both sides. you will see it all

Marauder still has +20% crit. WE still has +15% crit. Knight recently got nerfed so they can only provide 10% offensive crit or 10% offensive/heal. Not both. Order needs to run an IB or SW for extra crit which are not meta.

Also OP does play both sides(as do I) so please stop with the assumptions.

[Gachimuchi]

Dirty Tricks and Leading Shots also affects crit heals wich not only gives em better base healing but also increase the chanse of on crit heal effects like the Runepriest Blessing for example.

Much better AP regen for Order then Destruction, this have a massive impact especially on healers on order who basicly never even have to worry about runing out of AP's.

Archmage - Wild Healing tactic
Runepriest - Masterrune of Fury

Which is also irrelevant because the meta Destru comp is 2x DoK because their M2 is busted and shaman/zealot are under performing. Shaman is in a much better spot now but I have yet to see by how much.

Besides the crit stacking (better crit tactics overall - within meta comps) to order, I'll just mention how rdps is king atm and having a range KD is quite important one side only.

Better crit stacking? Where?

Meta group has Knight which will provide 10% offensive crit or 10% offensive/ heal crit for the group.

Not meta group has SW which will provide 15% offensive/heal crit for the group. Not meta group has IB which provides 10% for 1 DPS and the IB himself.

rDPS is king says who? That statement doesn't hold any water when equally skilled and geared melee trains meet 3-2-1 groups the melee train wins out every time.

Massive over prevalence of CC and snares over on order espically those rKD's

Now just because blackguard snare wasn't realistically obtainable(until recently) doesn't mean you get to ignore blorc snare

Jokes aside, yes, Order does have access to big AoE snares which are uncleanseable by DoK from Knight and IB. These abilities also have a cooldown.

Big swing however, does not. Snares for everybody. Not cleanseable by WP either.

[Jaycub]

Massive over prevalence of CC and snares over on order espically those rKD's

CC is really gonna come down to what you are running comp wise,

Obviously anything running a SW which right now the only viable group running SW is a proc meta buster group on order, is going to have more KD power than the destro proc group...

BO AoE snare blows Knight AoE snare out of the water. It's CD is 0 only tied to mechanic, it cannot be cleansed by anything, it also has a random 25% disorient and str debuff tied to it, and the most important thing of all... it's 30ft range instead of 5ft for the 1st application. The only downside is the duration which is half, and high AP costs. But I don't think spamming big swing is really detrimental to the flow of BO at all.

Destro also has access to the only 5 sec KD in the game, just on a class that's in balance hell atm (BG). BO is forced in getting AoE snare and losses out on KD unlike SM who has a realistic choice in getting KD with ether dance or WW at least until RR70(?) environment where choice isn't as clear cut. That is honestly more damming than RKD, but imo RKD is overrated and the better BW specs don't run it because FBB is too good.

Even with RKD, I don't really see any sentiment that SW is much better than SH.



I also want to get into WP vs DoK, which are the core healers of every party. I really think DoK is much better than WP.

>Can cleanse inc HD's
>Insanely OP m2
>better covenants (same damage with snare when you use the tactic vs WP's damage prayer using tactic)
>

Spoiler:

Viable DPS spec

The big thing I see brought up is exalted defenses, which I just don't see touching these 3 things combined.

[Gachimuchi]

I also want to get into WP vs DoK, which are the core healers of every party. I really think DoK is much better than WP.

>Can cleanse inc HD's
>Insanely OP m2
>better covenants (same damage with snare when you use the tactic vs WP's damage prayer using tactic)
>

Spoiler:

Viable DPS spec

The big thing I see brought up is exalted defenses, which I just don't see touching these 3 things combined.

you forgot

>can cleanse all incoming heal debuffs order has access to

[Vdova]

I don't really know what to say to you about this, order has about 50rr worth of stats extra in every party with meta comps.

You are looking at things in a vacuum here. If by meta comp you mean a comp that has knight, they either have 10% more offensive crit up all the time or 10% heal/offensive crit up 95% of the time. Which in your oversimplified view of things is more like 30ish renown points.

Destru tactics are more selfish wheras order tactics are more group oriented. Marauder for example has 20% extra crit up 95% of the time... in your book that would be equivalent to 50-60 points. WE has +15% crit at max mechanic with a tactic with no downside. You do not see these kind of tactics on Order MDPS.

you missed shadow warrior. it also gives the PARTY a crit buff. these all STACK(this is the main problem right here)

Knight dirty tricks + Leading shots = 15% crit. They don't stack. On the other hand: Knight Encouraged aim + Leading Shots is 25% offensive crit and + does give 25% offensive crit and 15% heal crit. This carries the downside of having to run a Shadow Warrior in a comp which is inherently not a meta group.

the "anti crit" tactics you speak of are used when the tanks spec two hander, and effect only themselves. not the PARTY

did i mention all the order crit buffs stack? for the whole party? excluding the IB.

crit was also just nerfed across the board, which is an order buff. so the devs don't like crit stacking but they wont look at these tactics. that are only available on ONE SIDE.

this is not whining or any of that do not take any of this personally, i will still be bodying order into infinity until the server goes down again. but if you play both sides and learn both sides. you will see it all

Wrong again, all order crit buffs don't all stack.

Marauder still has +20% crit. WE still has +15% crit. Knight recently got nerfed so they can only provide 10% offensive crit or 10% offensive/heal. Not both. Order needs to run an IB or SW for extra crit which are not meta.

Also OP does play both sides(as do I) so please stop with the assumptions.

Whats better in group oriented game? Have selfish or group wide oriented abbilities?

You say no order has self crit tactic?
SW - BullsEye 20% crit if he crit(mirror to mara) combined with leading shoots(15%crit for group when he crit) makes him best ranged for duo with BW(15% more crit,2rkds,2heal debuffs,both hit like a truck)

IB -sweet revenge 15% crit if above 50grudge + stack with spamable 10%crit chance skill also for oath friend.

Choppa+slayer both 15% crit chance for 2h tree.

Even if every dps party member spent 50rr points in to crit it still give max 14%crit chance. While order group comps can have 10-25%extra crit for "free"

[Bozzax]

I'll try and list what I know then,

>Crit

Order:
Knight - 10% crit for party, virtually 100% uptime and AoE / 10% offensive crit for all targets within 30ft of knight (can't use both)
IB - 10% melee crit for defensive target and self, no CD but single target and costs grude and is tied to an attack
SW - 15% crit for the entire group except themselves (tactic based on crit)

Destro:
Mara - Deeply Impaled tactic, 10% crit for on any target you impale
BG - 10% crit in AoE tied to an attack with 100% uptime (if not avoided)
WE - 50% party wide crit M3 (not happening in current morale gain environment)

Ini debuffs are pretty well mirrored so I wont mention them.

As for anti crit mechanics, I don't really think any stand out on order but for destro...

WE - 25% reduced crit tied to an ability+tactic
BG - 205% reduced crit tied to an ability, 5 sec cooldown 10 sec duration (requires full mechanic)
Choppa - 100% reduced crit tied to a exhaustive move on a 30 sec cd with 10 sec duration.
IB - same as BG

BG isn't meta right now, and that really hurts things crit wise for destro imo. Marauders also don't run deeply impaled for whatever reason im not sure, same for WE's and their anti crit tactic. BG also has problems running it's crit buff because it's tied to 2H atm, and giving up the KD is pretty ****.

This is just what I see for crit, too lazy to go into other things right now.

edit: added SW and IB

Try this instead you have been amazingly selective in how you present this

Most is covered in mirrors except DT, LS and spammable AF that stacks with the other 2. These also add outgoing heal crits which makes them even more amazing

[Bozzax]

BO AoE snare blows Knight AoE snare out of the water

Destro also has access to the only 5 sec KD in the game

RKD is overrated

DoK is much better than WP.

Jaycub, you and Beavis needs to stop making these stupid posts

[bloodi]

Jaycub, you and Beavis needs to stop making these stupid posts

The ones who claim that order has a massive advantage are fine however. Keep them going.

[dur3al]

BO AoE snare blows Knight AoE snare out of the water

Destro also has access to the only 5 sec KD in the game

RKD is overrated

DoK is much better than WP.

Jaycub, you and Beavis needs to stop making these stupid posts

I can only second this sentiment, especially the rKD is overrated lol.