Return of Reckoning

not a bad idea

If you want to change the Cleanse, i'd love to try out a double cleanse for AM/Shamy or an omni cleanse. A) would mean you cleanse 2 effects per cast and with B) i mean that they can cleanse curse, ailment as well as hex with the tactic slotted. While i think the omni cleanse could potentially be counterproductive in a bunch of situations i still can see benefits of it. In the first place i would love a double cleanse for my AM against those pesky Marauders and BOs though :>

dumb ideas below

1. Make Magical/Infusion shrug it off proc at 25% and reduce cooldown by 30s.

2. Make Tranquility/Gork's Waaagh increase intelligence by some calculation of level, increasing it up to 400 at 5 points of it at lvl 40. Can also be applied to Force/Mork's Waaagh with willpower.

noisestorm wrote:If you want to change the Cleanse, i'd love to try out a double cleanse for AM/Shamy or an omni cleanse. A) would mean you cleanse 2 effects per cast and with B) i mean that they can cleanse curse, ailment as well as hex with the tactic slotted. While i think the omni cleanse could potentially be counterproductive in a bunch of situations i still can see benefits of it. In the first place i would love a double cleanse for my AM against those pesky Marauders and BOs though :>

I like the idea of a sort of Destroy Confidence effect for AM/Shaman, but for cleansing instead of buff shearing. Being able to remove more than one effect would be a neat thing that makes single target cleansing more useful, and it'll help to address the cleanse distribution disparity between realms if we get a good way to remove Ailments like Destruction has with the DoK's AoE cleanse.

Gachimuchi wrote:dumb ideas below

1. Make Magical/Infusion shrug it off proc at 25% and reduce cooldown by 30s.

2. Make Force/Gork's Waaagh increase intelligence by some calculation of level, increasing it up to 400 at 5 points of it at lvl 40. Can also be applied to tranquility/Mork's Waaagh with willpower.

The first one is cool, but I think Magical Infusion and Shrug it Off should also save a target from a fatal blow with 1 HP before going off if the threshold for its activation is bypassed (like if the target goes from 26% to 0% in a single hit).

The second one seems too strong. On my AM, I've got ~2k armor with a pot and every resist softcapped before applying my buff, and adding that much Willpower on top of my defensive stats seems a little obscene.

Penril wrote: One thing to consider though is the effect these puddles would have on Magus. Engie is fine since Shaman can't cleanse him. But Magus would have 2 out of 3 healers being able to group-cleanse his DoTs.

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Good point. Last thing I want to be doing is indirectly nerfing my favourite class!

peterthepan3 wrote:

Penril wrote: One thing to consider though is the effect these puddles would have on Magus. Engie is fine since Shaman can't cleanse him. But Magus would have 2 out of 3 healers being able to group-cleanse his DoTs.

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Good point. Last thing I want to be doing is indirectly nerfing my favourite class!

I don't get this argument, you can just run 2 WP and you can group cleanse all Magus stuff over and over anyway.
How is another class having a group cleanse affect this?

It would exacerbate an already-dire situation for one of the most underperforming classes in the game by increasing the amount of classes that can effectively neuter a Magus's damage. Having gone through several of these incidents (Magus being indirectly nerfed), I'd rather not see it happen again

anyway let's not derail from the topic.

Well Magus is allready in that situation with dual WP being the meta anyway.
And it's a topic for the Magus or Warrior Priest like you said.

But I don't think having more healers being able to group cleanse is an issue considering you can run 3 WP in the group with group cleanse if you want to. The only way that could be an issue is if groups would be limited to 1 of each class wich they are not. Thats why I think that the argument that having more classes with group cleanse is a bad thing is not really a valid argument.

roadkillrobin wrote:Well Magus is allready in that situation with dual WP being the meta anyway.
And it's a topic for the Magus or Warrior Priest like you said.

But I don't think having more healers being able to group cleanse is an issue considering you can run 3 WP in the group with group cleanse if you want to. The only way that could be an issue is if groups would be limited to 1 of each class wich they are not. Thats why I think that the argument that having more classes with group cleanse is a bad thing is not really a valid argument.

That would be a bad group composition, though. Even a two WP group is begging for trouble, in my opinion.

WPs can't cleanse Ailments, and just about every common incoming heal debuff in the game is an Ailment (the only one I can think off of the top of my head that isn't is Cant Stop Da Chop, which is a Curse). So, while it's certainly possible that you could have a six man group with two WP healers, it behooves you to bring a non-WP (preferably RP for Blessing of Grungni) who can help to address any bothersome incoming heal debuffs.

Destruction doesn't quite have this problem, either. A two DoK group can deal with Ailments all day with both their group cleanse and their class-specific Morale 2 if need be. I'd still argue that DoK+Zealot is stronger because of the synergy between the two classes (buffing the DoK's healing by 25% while contributing great healing is kind of a huge deal for when you can't remove heal debuffs), but a two DoK group could work in ways that a two WP group wouldn't.

gungnir08 wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote:Well Magus is allready in that situation with dual WP being the meta anyway.
And it's a topic for the Magus or Warrior Priest like you said.

But I don't think having more healers being able to group cleanse is an issue considering you can run 3 WP in the group with group cleanse if you want to. The only way that could be an issue is if groups would be limited to 1 of each class wich they are not. Thats why I think that the argument that having more classes with group cleanse is a bad thing is not really a valid argument.

That would be a bad group composition, though. Even a two WP group is begging for trouble, in my opinion.

WPs can't cleanse Ailments, and just about every common incoming heal debuff in the game is an Ailment (the only one I can think off of the top of my head that isn't is Cant Stop Da Chop, which is a Curse). So, while it's certainly possible that you could have a six man group with two WP healers, it behooves you to bring a non-WP (preferably RP for Blessing of Grungni) who can help to address any bothersome incoming heal debuffs.

Destruction doesn't quite have this problem, either. A two DoK group can deal with Ailments all day with both their group cleanse and their class-specific Morale 2 if need be. I'd still argue that DoK+Zealot is stronger because of the synergy between the two classes (buffing the DoK's healing by 25% while contributing great healing is kind of a huge deal for when you can't remove heal debuffs), but a two DoK group could work in ways that a two WP group wouldn't.

Yes you're right and that woul make AM bring some synnergy to a group somethin they completly lack atm.