Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

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Isgart
Posts: 21

Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#11 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:24 pm

Torquemadra wrote:
Bullen1995 wrote:Have reported this already they know this needs a redesign :)
It's an item occupying a position that will be irrelevant soon enough and doesn't warrant development time on it. You want high AA use it, you want raw stats then there are other options.
I´m sorry for my poor understanding of the mechanic, but I thought that AA also count on str, if I remember right for 1 DPS you need 10 str points. Maybe I remember wrong. dont think that this will be irrelevant, as long as these weapons stays in the game. But agree that this dont need to be done before t4.

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Genisaurus
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Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#12 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:39 pm

bloodi wrote:
Genisaurus wrote:Both.

1. The weapons are internally consistent with Mythic's valuation of different stats and itemization.
2. Spending time adjusting these weapons (trading the disrupt for other stats) is time not spent working on T4, where a host of other weapons would displace the value of these specifically.
I say it because 1, does not make sense checking previous tiers, i would be perfectly fine with 2 but the "parry equals x stats" is not the reason.

At least it doesnt make sense when you compare them to Brigand and Bandit.
Check my last post. Morale gain is valued like a normal stat at a 1:1 ratio, regardless of item level or rarity. On the other hand, Disrupt is valued between 1:12 and 1:18 to other stats, depending on some things I haven't worked out yet.

The Brigand waraxe has 104 "points" spent on it (49 + 49 + 6)
The Boundless waraxe has at least 136 points spent on it (32 + 32 + (6 * 12)).

If you want proof of internal consistency, check the armor redesign spreadsheet I put together for the new sets. note: The stat totals in that spreadsheet are slightly off, as I only recently discovered that HP/4s is weighted 4:1 while looking at T4 sets. Here are the ratios of stats:points for some other bonuses

Stats are 1:1
Morale is 1:1?
AP/s is 1:8
HP/4s is 4:1
Resists are about 5.15:1 (fluctuates with some other factor)
Attack Speed is 5%:1% (% bonuses are internally consistent, but I can't correlate them to stats yet)

If we ever adjust the stats, it would be at the cost of some of the disrupt to keep things consistent.
Last edited by Genisaurus on Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bullen1995
Posts: 227

Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#13 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:26 pm

Torquemadra wrote:
Bullen1995 wrote:Have reported this already they know this needs a redesign :)
It's an item occupying a position that will be irrelevant soon enough and doesn't warrant development time on it. You want high AA use it, you want raw stats then there are other options.
What exacly are you talking about? Its already irrelevant since you have once again created way more powerful weapons for other tank classes such as IB's boundless troll crusha with 74.0 dps 70+ strength and ap reg. instead of giving other tank classes somthing simular you ran with Mythics retarded stat setup. Why wasen't this looked into before droping the patch. Knights are locked into 1 boundless 2 hander while other tank classes have 2. And all the blue orvr Greatswords (Eternal & Bandit) are still bugged with 2.8 attack speed and there is no Eternal Parry weapons for empire but all the other races have it? :roll:

bloodi
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Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#14 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:35 pm

Genisaurus wrote:Check my last post
I know your argument but i dont think you are seeing mine, lets take a look at the level 31 bracket weapons, and Outlaw Trollspliter, an uncommon 2h axe for dwarves has +66 str +4% parry, now lets take a look at the blue version, Bandits Trollsplitter, a rare 2h axe that gives +50 str +37 WS + 3% parry.

Now if we follow your math, we would have 66 + (6 * 4) vs 50 + 37 + (4 * 12) which would 90 vs 115.

But lets check the uncommon level 35 waraxe shall we, its 62str + 50 Ws + 2ap/sec, if your math isnt wrong, this would be 114 points, now lets see the rare version, 84 str + 4% parry, that gives us, 108, so what happened here? How come upgrading from uncommon to rare gives us less points?

So either your math is out of line or the weapons themselves are lacking something, a lot of people simply looking at them sees something wrong, i just want to know if its just a weird occurance or they are truly out of line.

And as i said i have no problems with them staying as they are because of lack of development time, however i think the math themselves and/or the tool are screwing up somewhere.

You mentioned before a possible error while sniffing the packets and seeing things like the Eternal shield lacking all stats bar 2% block, its the most likely answer.

Edit: Further checking just to make sure shows up the Outlaws battlehammer, lvl 31 uncommon, giving +25 str +12 ws +2% disrupt, so 56 for a 1h hammer, the blue version drops the disrupt and gives +31 str +31 ws, so 62, the purple version gives +31 str +16 ws + 2% disrupt so 59. This would be strange but much more according to your math however going to the level 35 version shows up a problem: Uncommon is +31 str +31 wounds, 62, the blue gives +31str +16 WS +2% disrupt, 59, jusst like the lvl 31 bandit version? Meanwhile the Boundless equivalent is +40 str +40 wounds, 80.

Something is really weird.

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Genisaurus
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Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#15 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:00 pm

bloodi wrote:
Genisaurus wrote:Check my last post
I know your argument but i dont think you are seeing mine, lets take a look at the level 31 bracket weapons, and Outlaw Trollspliter, an uncommon 2h axe for dwarves has +66 str +4% parry, now lets take a look at the blue version, Bandits Trollsplitter, a rare 2h axe that gives +50 str +37 WS + 3% parry.

Now if we follow your math, we would have 66 + (6 * 4) vs 50 + 37 + (4 * 12) which would 90 vs 115.

But lets check the uncommon level 35 waraxe shall we, its 62str + 50 Ws + 2ap/sec, if your math isnt wrong, this would be 114 points, now lets see the rare version, 84 str + 4% parry, that gives us, 108, so what happened here? How come upgrading from uncommon to rare gives us less points?

So either your math is out of line or the weapons themselves are lacking something, a lot of people simply looking at them sees something wrong, i just want to know if its just a weird occurance or they are truly out of line.

And as i said i have no problems with them staying as they are because of lack of development time, however i think the math themselves and/or the tool are screwing up somewhere.

You mentioned before a possible error while sniffing the packets and seeing things like the Eternal shield lacking all stats bar 2% block, its the most likely answer.
The level 35 uncommon waraxe is called "Enduring Waraxe" and it has the stats:
60.9 DPS
4.1 Speed
+25 Strength
+25 Weapon Skill
+6% Disrupt
Total points: 146

The level 35 rare waraxe is "Waraxe of the Eternal" and it has the stats:
68.2 DPS
4.1 Speed
+56 Strength
+56 Toughness
+28 Weapon Skill
Total points: 140

The level 35 very rare waraxe is the "Boundless Waraxe" and it has the stats
75.4 DPS
4.1 Speed
+32 Strength
+32 Weapon Skill
+6% Disrupt
Total points: 160

So it looks like between the blue and green items in this case, something is slightly off. However, the gain in DPS might be considered more valuable than the missing 6 stat points. In fact, it could be that DPS and speed are factored into the equation, and the blue weapon has a slightly higher DPS rating or slightly different speed rating than another blue item of the same level. I generally don't look at speed/dps, because it's hard to ascertain a value. Is a faster speed with lower damage per hit more valuable than a higher damage on a slower swing? Does it differ between classes?

I will say that different gear - even within the same level and rarity - were given different "point budgets" to work with depending on how you would get them. For example, a level 20 green waraxe that was rewarded from a quest might be allowed to have a different point value than a level 20 green waraxe dropped from a dungeon boss, which might have a different point budget from a level 20/renown 14 green waraxe bought from a renown vendor.

Edit: Also, at least in the case of AP Per Second, it appears I was wrong - 1 AP/s seems to be worth 8 points.

Bullen1995
Posts: 227

Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#16 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:35 pm

Also it seams that 1 handers have 2 handers base stats check ingame with AH. The link Geni sent me in a pm before.

http://www.arsenalofwar.com/items/Order ... ss%20Blade

The Boundless Blade
+ 16 Strength
+ 16 Weapon Skill
+ 3% Disrupt

The Boundless Blade (Ingame)
+ 40 Strength
+ 32 Weapon Skill
+ 3% Disrupt

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Genisaurus
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Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#17 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:45 pm

Bullen1995 wrote:Also it seams that 1 handers have 2 handers base stats check ingame with AH. The link Geni sent me in a pm before.

http://www.arsenalofwar.com/items/Order ... ss%20Blade

The Boundless Blade
+ 16 Strength
+ 16 Weapon Skill
+ 3% Disrupt

The Boundless Blade (Ingame)
+ 40 Strength
+ 32 Weapon Skill
+ 3% Disrupt
This discrepancy will be addressed.

Bullen1995
Posts: 227

Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#18 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:24 pm

The other one handers with clean stats seam to have the correct stats i find these with disrupt and ap reg to have way to high base stats also the one handers are way to fast its like again the attack speed problem when 2.6 ingame while its 2.8 on the database. ALL 2 handers ingame have 74.0 while on the database its 75.0 DPS and speed set to 3.4 not 3.6 like it was changed to in last patch. Bows are also to fast and have a speed of 3.4 while ingame its 2.6.

Link for 2 handers http://www.arsenalofwar.com/items/Destr ... 0Ninestaff
Link for Bows http://www.arsenalofwar.com/items/Destr ... s%20Shoota
Example on another 1 hander no link on this one tho.

The boundless Falcata (Ingame)
+40 Strength
+32 wepskill
+1 ap reg

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Genisaurus
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Posts: 1054

Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#19 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:12 pm

Bullen1995 wrote:The other one handers with clean stats seam to have the correct stats i find these with disrupt and ap reg to have way to high base stats also the one handers are way to fast its like again the attack speed problem when 2.6 ingame while its 2.8 on the database. ALL 2 handers ingame have 74.0 while on the database its 75.0 DPS and speed set to 3.4 not 3.6 like it was changed to in last patch. Bows are also to fast and have a speed of 3.4 while ingame its 2.6.

Link for 2 handers http://www.arsenalofwar.com/items/Destr ... 0Ninestaff
Link for Bows http://www.arsenalofwar.com/items/Destr ... s%20Shoota
Example on another 1 hander no link on this one tho.

The boundless Falcata (Ingame)
+40 Strength
+32 wepskill
+1 ap reg
Like I said, it's been addressed.

Cimba
Posts: 376

Re: Boundless Greathand Weapon Stats

Post#20 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:20 pm

I've been wondering for a while if there is a single decent 2H available for slayers/ibs at the moment. With decent I mean without crap like disrupt or thoughness. Just a straight 2H with Strength/Weapon Skill and/or Wounds and some decent DPS.

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