Return of Reckoning

SH killed me once but when I called my buddies for the revenge - he just avoided us in his privileged soloQ only scenarios :^)
true story, soon

Yes, thanks for pointing out that I stated I play a SQ as my main.

Stinkyweed wrote:SW > SQ always and forever.

I play both:
SQ as my main, fully geared and potions out the gobo hole.
SW in green crap gear, rr33 or so, no goodies.

My SW outperforms my SQ in all facets of rdps except for annoyance.
SW has better group synergy, more sustained damage, more burst damage, RKD, and better defense (cleanse, install cast armor).
SQ has buggy pets who are only good against solo or pugs, speed proc and ability which is nice, BadGas in a wretched line.

At least someone can answer without trolling.

Stinkyweed wrote:SW > SQ always and forever.

I play both:
SQ as my main, fully geared and potions out the gobo hole.
SW in green crap gear, rr33 or so, no goodies.

My SW outperforms my SQ in all facets of rdps except for annoyance.
SW has better group synergy, more sustained damage, more burst damage, RKD, and better defense (cleanse, install cast armor).
SQ has buggy pets who are only good against solo or pugs, speed proc and ability which is nice, BadGas in a wretched line.

he speaks truth.

...

LazyWorm wrote:I have seen alot of SC's where SW been at the top of damage chart but never SH. Maybe SH better in something else?

m8 don't even ask about such things like order characters better then destro
no one order player agree that it is fact that SW>SH, Slayer>Choppa, AM>Shaman, and so on,
more! they tell you that destro is too powerful, so what that SW, slayer, BW doing top damage on 90% of scenarios, and have better skills then destro like Pounce and Inevitable Doom, order characters are still weak and need support
looks like that game should be funny only for one side

Sh can use all their abilities unlike sw who has to stance dance in the grand scheme of things for an rdps to switch stances on a 5s cd is a "meh" downside compare that to she who need to stop and summon buggy pets for stances that are on a 30s cd but **** me is it annoying when you loose your spiked squig and you dps drops because the ai **** up and it went and got it's self killed

Sh have "better mobility" with run away

Sw have better cc with rkd and better burst/sustain

In the grand scheme of things I'd agree that SW>SH

The difference is:
Only 6 points needed to get their heal debuff that is identical to SH and allows them to go into another tree if they want to wheras SH has to sink 10 points into a tree for the same thing
SH doesn't have RKD but SW does(they have to press 1 additional button to use it though if they aren't already in skirmish stance!!!!111)
and Shadow Warrior can do this:

lastalien wrote:

Stinkyweed wrote:SW > SQ always and forever.

I play both:
SQ as my main, fully geared and potions out the gobo hole.
SW in green crap gear, rr33 or so, no goodies.

My SW outperforms my SQ in all facets of rdps except for annoyance.

I've heard it before. The message was almost identical.
The key here, SH - main

Stinky is correct. Things will balance out a bit better in T4 though. The main problem right now is that with the limited mastery points, squigs can't go into big shooting (like SWs can't go into scout).

The squig dps is based around a plink spam setup with quick shooting dots. Since plink is not available, squigs are using run and shoot as their spamable. Similarly, SW's are using spiral fletched arrow.

SW abilities have a higher base damage then squig abilities to account for the pet dps. The Squig also has a "loner" tactic to get a flat 25% increase on damage with no pet.

The problem in T3 is that run and shoot has a much lower base damage compared to spiral fletched arrow than plink does to eagle eye. This is made worse by SW's who have a heavy hitting flanking shot compared to a pathetic behind ya. Base damages listed below:

SFA: 216 / RNS: 166
EE: 354 / Plnk: 320
FS: 636 / BYa: 291 (note: FS also has increased crit chance based on target health loss)

Most of this is resolved in T4 when the Plink/EE specs become the meta. In T3 SW's and SQ are forced into their skirm/quick shooting builds. SW Skirm is better than SQ quick shooting.

In T4, flanking shot and Spiral fletched arrow take a back seat to the scout/big shooting builds and the difference becomes less of an issue. If there is any change needed, it would be a base damage buff to RNS and behind ya so that they are more in line with the damage scaling of other squig abilities in comparison to the SW mirrors. Plink scales fairly high in comparison to Eagle eye (at about 90% of the damage. The dots compare about the same way. Buffing RNS and behind ya to damage base in the realm of 90% of the SW would make sense to me.

For context, the SW excels over the SQ in skirm as a relic of the SW changes that moved it from a 45ft suicide spec to a 100ft killer. SW's picked up a mirror of the SQ 100ft skirm tactic and a 1s EE tactic. This left the SW hands down the better performer in the skirm/quick shooting trees and the equal in scout/big shooting.

Squig utility vs SW utility is another matter. I've always thought that Squigs should have a usable form of bad gas but that is the topic of another thread.

TenTonHammer wrote:Sh can use all their abilities unlike sw who has to stance dance in the grand scheme of things for an rdps to switch stances on a 5s cd is a "meh" downside compare that to she who need to stop and summon buggy pets for stances that are on a 30s cd but **** me is it annoying when you loose your spiked squig and you dps drops because the ai **** up and it went and got it's self killed

Sh have "better mobility" with run away

Sw have better cc with rkd and better burst/sustain

In the grand scheme of things I'd agree that SW>SH

SH pets are great at attacking though walls and other objectives here, making very hard to avoid the thing.