Return of Reckoning

lilsabin wrote:"toe-to-toe combat"... you realise that as a witch elf or hunter , you cannot face to face your target

You make it sound like I made up that expression. I'm merely quoting the game:
I'm talking about the core concept of the mastery, not the actual gameplay. IF WE/WH aren't able to go toe-to-toe while specced into that mastery, then obviously there's something wrong.

lilsabin wrote:you always need to open a fight with a jump outta stealth ability to be efficient and it is a matter of 3 second till you die if your target is not down ... i feel like we are more of a 1 time strike class , like if u miss your opener (and is revealed) or cant take down your target fast enough after opening , you are done . with all the zerg going on , as soon as you are revealed it s almost a guaranteed death

I know WE/WH aren't the best class for ORvR. Far from it. If anything, they are one of the worst. Stealth classes in MMOs always seem to suffer in these environments. It was the same for Rogues in Alterac Valley in vanilla WoW (40 vs 40 SC). And this is why I don't have a problem with a buff to these classes.

I think stealth should not drain AP and you should be able be in Stealth little longer.

geezereur wrote:I think stealth should not drain AP and you should be able be in Stealth little longer.

lol , i even forgot the draining Ap part

Razid1987 wrote:

lilsabin wrote:"toe-to-toe combat"... you realise that as a witch elf or hunter , you cannot face to face your target

You make it sound like I made up that expression. I'm merely quoting the game:

Spoiler:

I'm talking about the core concept of the mastery, not the actual gameplay. IF WE/WH aren't able to go toe-to-toe while specced into that mastery, then obviously there's something wrong.

lilsabin wrote:you always need to open a fight with a jump outta stealth ability to be efficient and it is a matter of 3 second till you die if your target is not down ... i feel like we are more of a 1 time strike class , like if u miss your opener (and is revealed) or cant take down your target fast enough after opening , you are done . with all the zerg going on , as soon as you are revealed it s almost a guaranteed death

I know WE/WH aren't the best class for ORvR. Far from it. If anything, they are one of the worst. Stealth classes in MMOs always seem to suffer in these environments. It was the same for Rogues in Alterac Valley in vanilla WoW (40 vs 40 SC). And this is why I don't have a problem with a buff to these classes.

lord knows lot of things wasnt right with this game to start with

Guard and healing can make a big difference. Just like for all the other DPS classes. Ambushing enemies from stealth is the ideal way to play a WE/WH, but they're not the solo stealth-reliant one trick ponies people like to see them as.

-we all know that when we are out of stealth there ISNT much we can do (because we specialise in surprise attack and assassination style) so , is it possible to make stealth usable more often , like reduce its cooldown time by 10 and make it a 0.5 or even 0.1 second cast (it will make it almost instant since it seems like you devs cannot make it insta cast) .
Allow us to use certain ability while stealthed without breaking it , for exemple applying the poison(enchantement) on our dagger .

the sustain of a WH/WE is great and both classes provide a lot of dmg outside of stealth. to pull it off and to stay in combat, you need a group though - but that's a requirement every mdps class has. your burst period and the shock effect - what distinguishes those classes from the other mdps - is on a 1 minute cooldown which is legit, considering the overall damage potential of those classes.

no need to change anything imho.

Then i think everybody will agree with the fact that we need a sprint ability (not flee , but more like the charges of the slayer and choppa) because we need to get faster to our target and be able to run away of dangerous situation as well . Maybe you could automaticaly apply the "fleet footed" tactics without us having to choose the tactics (and reducing it s cooldown by 45 secs, i dunno) like what you did with repent and 2hander WP .

since both classes do have a disengage - i don't like it - at lvl 40 and already got the best detaunt ingame, it's hard to judge. it might be too early for such a buff. having fleet footed as an option for the WE is already great but we need to see how those 2 classes perform at 40/80. i think fleet footed was never meant to be a gap closer but a disengage. that's the reason why WH got repel blasphemy and some more defensive utility like Witchfinder's Protection + more sustain dmg options (BAL, IF) while he also profits from defending attacks (Vindication). the WE is more likely a hit and run class with either huge front- or backloaded burst potential (higher burst peaks than the wh), considering both overall kits.

Tklees wrote:the best one in the game for mdps

.
the worst one, i don't see how such a situational disengage should be superior to charge.

Tklees wrote:A gap closer would be nice but the reasoning behind not having one is stealth.

stealth is a gap closer, a insanely good one.

Bretin wrote:

-we all know that when we are out of stealth there ISNT much we can do (because we specialise in surprise attack and assassination style) so , is it possible to make stealth usable more often , like reduce its cooldown time by 10 and make it a 0.5 or even 0.1 second cast (it will make it almost instant since it seems like you devs cannot make it insta cast) .
Allow us to use certain ability while stealthed without breaking it , for exemple applying the poison(enchantement) on our dagger .

the sustain of a WH/WE is great and both classes provide a lot of dmg outside of stealth. to pull it off and to stay in combat, you need a group though - but that's a requirement every mdps class has. your burst period and the shock effect - what distinguishes those classes from the other mdps - is on a 1 minute cooldown which is legit, considering the overall damage potential of those classes.

no need to change anything imho.

Then i think everybody will agree with the fact that we need a sprint ability (not flee , but more like the charges of the slayer and choppa) because we need to get faster to our target and be able to run away of dangerous situation as well . Maybe you could automaticaly apply the "fleet footed" tactics without us having to choose the tactics (and reducing it s cooldown by 45 secs, i dunno) like what you did with repent and 2hander WP .

since both classes do have a disengage - i don't like it - at lvl 40 and already got the best detaunt ingame, it's hard to judge. it might be too early for such a buff. having fleet footed as an option for the WE is already great but we need to see how those 2 classes perform at 40/80. i think fleet footed was never meant to be a gap closer but a disengage. that's the reason why WH got repel blasphemy and some more defensive utility like Witchfinder's Protection + more sustain dmg options (BAL, IF) while he also profits from defending attacks (Vindication). the WE is more likely a hit and run class with either huge front- or backloaded burst potential (higher burst peaks than the wh), considering both overall kits.

Tklees wrote:the best one in the game for mdps

.
the worst one, i don't see how such a situational disengage should be superior to charge.

Tklees wrote:A gap closer would be nice but the reasoning behind not having one is stealth.

stealth is a gap closer, a insanely good one.[/quotyou

1. Self punt let's you jump off cliffs, staggers the target, could be used to punt yourself back after being punted, and could be used as a charge by punting yourself off of other players to get to backlines. This may not be the case here on RoR but we shall see. It also keeps moving you once casted even if you are CC'd, while charge if you are CC'd you stop. It's a matter of opinion. Self punt is a great tool in the right hands.

2. A gap closer once out of stealth in t3 (Mara has 2 in charge, and m1 root. WL has 3 in pounce, charge, and m1 root. Slayer and choppa both have charge and choppa has the bad aoe pull which I won't count. All while having melee snares because let's face it unless your chasing pugs snap shot is useless) Was what I was referring to. Self punt addresses this issue in t4. Sorry to not clarify there

As I said in my post these classes are performing well currently and do not need to be changed. You left that part out.

Jaycub wrote:Kisses/Bullets should not use a GCD

you should be able to change kisses or bullets in stealth with out it breaking

TenTonHammer wrote:

Jaycub wrote:Kisses/Bullets should not use a GCD

you should be able to change kisses or bullets in stealth with out it breaking

Bullets should be able to proc like kisses

Scrilian wrote: Bullets should be able to proc like kisses

See that i feel is a matter of taste/opinion

i like having control thats why i prefer the WH execution mechanic that applys the effect over WE's rng