Cash rules everything around me

[Tklees]

Since the ingame channels are an horrible way to discuss, here you have your "What did you do to my gold income!" thread.

Last tidbit of info from the terrible Order chat channels is that we should do PvE to get gold to play in pvp then server crashed after such words, i think it was a suicide attempt.

My personal opinion is that they should reimplement gold sinks like healers and rez sickness if the plan is to reduce the inflation, the idea of not being able to play pure pvp and sustain yourself with it is however a big no in my book.

Thoughts?

that you get more flies with honey than **** posting.

But you are also able to produce about 90% of the things you need from 2 professions in Apothecary and Cultivating which can be done while playing PvP. This includes, hp pots, ap pots, armor pots, and stat pots. Only items missing are talismans which im sure u can find someone to trade for.

So I guess you totally just blow that brilliant idea off? Great stuff.

I am neither for nor against the quests being nerfed. All I am saying is that it was done and that there are options to sustain my toons without them. Should there be a reward for PvP? The argument can be made that the reward is the tokens received at the end of SCs or the currency drops from kills to buy your character gear or currency pots.

[bloodi]

I am neither for nor against the quests being nerfed. All I am saying is that it was done and that there are options to sustain my toons without them. Should there be a reward for PvP? The argument can be made that the reward is the tokens received at the end of SCs or the currency drops from kills to buy your character gear or currency pots.

Yeah, remove gold from everything, they already give exp, what more reward you want you slacking entitled bum beggars?

But seriously, if you cannot realize that the point is that pvp and only pvp shouldd be enough to get gold then we have a problem.

[Foxbeep]

that you get more flies with honey than **** posting.

That wasn't disruptive posting at all, if anything your post was "****" posting.

He's got a valid point to bring up and discuss and you're breaking the forum's rules.

1
* Don't be a Troll:
Deliberately posting non-constructive, inappropriate, or inflammatory comments in order to solicit a response or cause discord is not allowed, in addition calling other users "Troll" or other words to describe this behavior is also prohibited. Troll country is only an area in game; please find another bridge to sit under.
2
* No Flame Throwers allowed:
Don't make it your objective to insult, disrespect or otherwise berate a post or user.

Your post didn't contribute to the topic of conversation and, to an outsider, looks like a thinly veiled attempt to discredit any further discussions of the topic by relegating them to the realm of "****" posting.

You're a balance moderator, I'd expect such a pointless ad-hominem to come from someone else.
I mean no disrespect, I've played with you in game and seen you post plenty of times but posts like that detract from the conversation and generally lower the level of respect in public dialogue.

Back to the topic at hand;
I believe optional cosmetic gold-sinks are the best way to curb a rapidly inflating economy.
If we have players with lots of gold who have nothing to spend gold on but items sold by other players (with lots of gold) then there's nearly no way for the money to make its way downwards.
In the real world, the CEO of the oil conglomerate doesn't wrench pipes, log pressures, write schedules or manage accounts. He pays people to do it. In this model, when two super-rich people exchange money for needed goods (airplanes, yachts, plastic surgery) the money makes its way down to the actual producers of such goods; Farmers, mechanics, miners and steel-mill workers for example.

In the MMO system, thankfully, the system isn't nearly so tedious. An enterprising player may be able to go into the wilderness, skin mega-squirrels and sell the pelts on the auction house to someone who turns it into gear to sell on the auction house to someone who wears it to kill baddies to get extra gear to sell on the auction house to the squirrel-butcher so that there's an even distribution of money, goods and services while each of them still complete the open goals of the game.

That's a perfect closed system.

Right now the issue is that the objective of the game isn't to craft gear and kill baddies for gear to sell to other players.

It's to kill other players.
With 15s per kill quest and 25s per t3 flight it's not a guaranteed possibility to even break even in a single RvR lake, much less if you have to jump to the next one before you're finished getting 25 kills (Which is more likely than most want to admit) so it's entirely possible to spend an evening killing other players, taking keeps, getting rewards and losing money.

While this isn't a problem for those of us lucky enough to already have money for flights, this poses a great threat to newer players of the game (And isn't the insane effort of entry to the higher tiers what caused the original spiral of death on live?) who may not be able to RvR for more than one zone at a time without being forced to run into the PvE zones and kill spiders for spare change. This isn't fun. The goal is to encourage open combat with reckless abandon.

That being said, inflation let to run amok can wreak havoc on the player economy as well! Players may very well never be able to afford decent talismans or potions if they don't level the crafting skills themselves! Something must be done to prohibit exorbitant prices for needed goods. One way to do this is to increase the value of currency by increasing Upkeep costs, costs needed to complete the every day tasks in the game (flying, respeccing, buying a last name, purchasing RvR gear) to appropriately discourage money hoarding driving prices down. Another way is to make currency harder to come across (reducing kill quest rewards etc). Each of these changes raises the perceived value of currency driving prices down. The only problem is that neither of these are really all that much of a problem for those who already have money, it's only an issue for players who are trying to get a foothold on the game.

A system that has proven well in other games with similar mechanics (Which will not be named here) is to provide expensive cosmetic items or other "status icons" to spend a large amount of money on. This allows Scrooge McDuck, the clever business man with a character at 200 of every crafting skill to show his wealth and afford the cost of living while still letting Hardy Worker, the fresh 32 engineer, to fly about and do his business and envy Scrooge.

I think the best course of action is to do one of the following while providing expensive cosmetic options (Special dyes, mounts, otherwise un-acquirable alt-appearance items).

Either the cost of upkeep needs to be readjusted to allow players to only RvR and still come out on top
OR
The amount of money coming into the economy from kill quests needs to be rebalanced to at least allow players to get by on RvR.

Being able to earn 7g with 25 kills was a bit steep, but it should be conceivable to make 3-4 so that you can still fly around and respec every once in a while without having to grind.


TL;DR there is no TL;DR just read it.


This isn't a damnation, this isn't me "skewering" the devs (whom I admire greatly for their hard work), this is an appeal to consider a rebalance to allow players to play the game.

[Sizer]

Since the ingame channels are an horrible way to discuss, here you have your "What did you do to my gold income!" thread.

Last tidbit of info from the terrible Order chat channels is that we should do PvE to get gold to play in pvp then server crashed after such words, i think it was a suicide attempt.

My personal opinion is that they should reimplement gold sinks like healers and rez sickness if the plan is to reduce the inflation, the idea of not being able to play pure pvp and sustain yourself with it is however a big no in my book.

Thoughts?

that you get more flies with honey than **** posting.

But you are also able to produce about 90% of the things you need from 2 professions in Apothecary and Cultivating which can be done while playing PvP. This includes, hp pots, ap pots, armor pots, and stat pots. Only items missing are talismans which im sure u can find someone to trade for.

you miss the point. this is about getting a reward for something you do. (pvp -> gold). People like getting rewards, spending more for the flightmaster then you actually getting gold is not rewarding its frustrating. the change just lowered the fun doing pvp.

so good game design would be to let people spend more money on things (even cosmetic it doesnt really matter) instead of restraining their income.

BS. You still get way more than you need to pay for the flightmaster - before I would make 100g every few days just from these quests, and yes, I used the flight master a lot. Now you wont make nearly that much, but it will still be enough.

Besides, less gold in the economy means prices will go down. Pots will not sell for 20g a stack anymore if people arent making 100g every other day in quests. Its a good change in the long run.

[Razid1987]

I'm a big fan of being self-sufficient in PvP, alone. This is something WoW did wrong for many years. You had expenses, but no income.

The same is the case now here in RoR, with the most recent patch. Although the consensuses is that this was a bad change, I think it would be best if we didn't go back to the old system a 100%, but instead we would get a 100 enemy kill quest. One where the silver / kill would be the same (Maybe slightly lower?).

So instead of a 25 enemy kill-quest worth 74s (0,74g), then you would get a 100 kills worth 296s (2,96g). This amount could be lowered slightly, as seen fit, of course.

The reason is simple: It's a pain to go back every 25 kills, and I doubt many people even bother.

And for the people saying we could make 100s of gold in a few days? Sure, but doing PvP, I thought I could, just every once in a while, paint my armor a different color, socket my armor with some sh*tty cheap talismans, fly to different zones, buy some pots, and possibly respec. Just very once in a while. I thought I deserved that, having killed hundreds (If not thousands) of players!

[Foxbeep]

BS. You still get way more than you need to pay for the flightmaster - before I would make 100g every few days just from these quests, and yes, I used the flight master a lot. Now you wont make nearly that much, but it will still be enough.

Besides, less gold in the economy means prices will go down. Pots will not sell for 20g a stack anymore if people arent making 100g every other day in quests. Its a good change in the long run.

Let's say it's a slow night on RvR and you're only managing to get 19 kills per zone.

Zone 1: 19 kills, Net gain :0g
Zone 2: 19 more kills, spent 25s to get here, get 30s from kill quests; Net gain: 5s
Zone 3: 19 more kills, spent 25s to get here, get 30s from kill quests; Net gain: 10s

Convenient! We get to keep playing!
But say it's not so lucky. Let's say the other realm just isn't playing in the lakes but you need your inf so you play anyways

Zone 1: 10 kills, Net gain: 0g
Zone 2: 10 klils, Net gain: -25s
Zone 3: 10 kills, you turn in kill quests and get 30s and spend 25s to get to the next zone; Net gain -20s
Zone 4: Net gain -15s
Zone 5: Net gain -10s
Zone 6: Net gain -5s
Zone 7: Net gain 0g

It takes 8 zone takes to start making money, and it's just 5 s per zone.
Even if stacks of potions only cost 1g ea you would have to capture 27 zones to buy one at this model.

I'm not saying we need to be rolling in hundreds of gold each, far from it, I think that flight costs need to be lowered to match the lowered income (Not to mention respeccing is still 5g, 80s at level 32)

at 15s per kill quests you have to kill 850 players to get enough gold to get a new last name.

[Shadowgurke]

I don't hate the changes, i'd just like a goldwipe at the same time.

I find it weird how you guys think killing less than 15 players per lake should somehow net you gold. If there is nothing to kill maybe consider doing Scenarios rather than doing the deathball zerg

[Foxbeep]

I don't hate the changes, i'd just like a goldwipe at the same time.

I find it weird how you guys think killing less than 15 players per lake should somehow net you gold. If there is nothing to kill maybe consider doing Scenarios rather than doing the deathball zerg

The issue with that sort of logic is the only thing it does is discourage playing.
Discouraging playing isn't a good thing.

Discouraging zerging by making zerging un-maintainable isn't as good an option as increasing the reward for small group play, we see this with premades in SCs.

Some players really love the zerg, and you still see these dedicated coordinated groups doing well and being rewarded (Who hasn't been excited for a keep take to see Kings Own in the mix playing well?) but in SCs small group play is fundamental.

Small group play is encouraged in ORVR through the AAO system and the distribution of RP and INF through a WB.

A group of 3 getting 15 kills nets them all a lot more renown and RP than a group or 15 getting 65 kills.

[Razid1987]

I don't hate the changes, i'd just like a goldwipe at the same time.

I find it weird how you guys think killing less than 15 players per lake should somehow net you gold. If there is nothing to kill maybe consider doing Scenarios rather than doing the deathball zerg

Making a completely gold wipe would harm the players who got their gold honestly, the most. If they do another one, they should make a threshold of like 100g or something, so honest players aren't punished, imho.

[Shadowgurke]

Discouraging zerging by making zerging un-maintainable isn't as good an option as increasing the reward for small group play, we see this with premades in SCs.

I don't think it would discourage zerging. It would discourage capturing empty zones. Also, this could actually make zerging more fun again, since players dropping out for 1 run means the opposite site has a chance to get some defense going, thus balancing oRvR a bit. Could be wishful thinking, but I don't think oRvR could get worse than it is now in terms of 1 side dominating.