Neoyoda wrote:I don't know about anyone else, but i really hate these hippie RvR rules. The thing i loved most about WAR was organized RvR. Ive played a dozen or so games since WAR's demise, and none have been able to compare to organizing and leading my first city siege and king kill.
Back then it was hard as hell to lock a zone, harder to take a fort, and even harder to lock the city for a king attempt. And if you were the underdog as we were, then it was damn near impossible. But that challenge was what made WAR a diamond in a sea full of dirty mmos.
Ive been told that RvR rules are the way they are because the tools havent been written yet to change them. And if thats the case, it is what it is.
But these rules I'm going to list deter any kind of organized and tactical warfare to win on the lakes. Ive also added my thoughts on each.
1. Respawning after a death spawns you in the keep. This makes defending the postern doors of a keep completely worthless. Back in the glory days if you wanted to defend a keep, you had to pray you got close enough to the walls to get rezzed in. And if the attacker was smart, they set up choke points far away from rez range to ensure victory.
2. Needing three objectives to attack a keep door. I really don't understand what this has to do with attacking a keep door. And its really stupid if you have the inner keep door at 5% and three 6 man groups take three objectives simultaneously halfway across the zone that takes 2 mins minimum to get to from the keep.
3. Keep doors resetting to 100%. Back in the day the only way to get a keeps door health up was for the tank to heal it 5% each. There were hundreds of times we would prep doors to 10-5%, then peel off to take an objective to pull the defenders out of the keep, wipe the defenders, then go beat down the door and set up postern defense teams preventing people from entering the keep thus ensuring a successful siege. Keep doors shouldnt magically gain health, they should only be repaired by the tank ability which ive long forgot the name of. There were also a few times when the attackers would be on the inner door, we would repair the outer door from 0 to 5% thus trapping them in, then pour inside the postern and wipe them. Real fun times there.
4. Zones locking by taking two keeps. When this game first came out, no one knew how to lock zones. It just seemed to magically happen. Then we figured out there was a point pool and you had to have a certain amount of points to lock the zone. Each objective gave your realm points, each keep gave your realm points, completing quests gave points, killing players gave points, controlling the lower tiers gave points, and winning or being queued for the scenarios that accompanied that specific zone gave points, all of which decayed over time except keep and objectives. This required a bunch of moving parts to lock a zone, and each had to be on point and prevented the mindless zerg from locking zone after zone.
5. Objectives not giving buffs. When you controlled objectives, your realm would get minor buffs. Either 5% increased magic damage, melee damage, ranged damage and wounds. While they werent game breaking, they did provide a benefit. And my memory may be a little rusty, but i think controlling all 4 gave you a small renown bonus as well.
6. Renown, influence and experience bonuses from the objectives and keeps you participated in on zone lock. When you would lock a zone, you would get a bonus for each objective and keep you helped take. This gave some very large ticks, so large in fact that it was better to RvR for renown than do scenarios. I remember asking my warband once why they kept following me around and they all said because i gave the best renown.
These are just some of the things i can remember off the top of my head. I could go into detail what it took to lock the original city to stage 2 so you could attack the king or warlord before they changed it to the hippie 3 stage scenarios. There is also what it took to successfully take a fort before mythic took that out as well.
I'm not sure what the devs have in mind for forts and city, but i can tell you when mythic took out forts and put in the hippie city scenarios, i quit very shortly after.
I guess the point of this whole post is wanting some actual challenge restored to the game where strategy and tactics was what brought about success, and not which side had the largest zerg.
Old school rules made it hard to succeed and even harder to get the gear for runes that allowed you to progress. t4 keep lords would cleave your raid to death and one shot your tank if they didnt have t3 gear. Fort lords would one shot your tank and cleave your raid in one shot if you didnt have t4 gear. Stage 1 boss of the city would cleave your raid in one shot if you didnt have fort gear or lost vale gear. And the length of time it took to get that gear for runes to progress was perfectly acceptable.
But ive rambled enough. Change the rules to the old school way and it will require a much more mature way to win. Or you can do what mythic did and cater to the zerg which imo destroyed the game.
1. Respawning in keep in intensifies the action. Instead of passively sitting in keep waiting for doors to go down, players can try and push out. It's especially important for melee, who can't even shoot from walls.
Resp in keep works only when the 1st gates are up, so if you wanna block people from entering a keep
and get no rewards for taking that keep you just have to break the first door. Then block as much as you wish.
2. It's actually good system to encourage fighting for bo's. Without it nobody would give a **** about bo's except than in terms of rr and influence. And greed is a poor motivation for anything.
Remove the "bo's for keep" requirement and insteado of, for example, protecting ogrund, people gonna passively sit in a keep waiting for def.
3. Keep doors don't reset until the siege is over. And when the siege is over you don't want to sit in keep for 15-30 minutes waiting for door to respawn, you want to counter attack by taking enemys bo's. The system works as well-oiled mechanism, nothing to change here but, maybe, to return player's ability to restore a bit of doors health during the siege.
4. Nostalgy is good, but when you was at t1 for the last time? Being unable to lock when you have all bo's is frustrating, especially when you desperately need 3 medals to buy decimator.
PQ (which we don't have yet and no one knows when we will) requirement to lock also slows down orvr action by extracting whole wb's from pvp. When all member of 1 side make pq, what the other side is supposed to do?
But there's another nostalgy-inspired solution from the days long gone to stop zergs steamroll over zones: make keeps unresettable. If you take a keep, it remains with your faction until the other faction takes it back. Maybe someone else remember these epic whole-day long siges of the last enemy keep? That feeling of defending your "home" which every, and especially your last, keep would give when defending it? Because it was much more important to hold your" ground" when you knew it won't magically reset after some time.
5. The problem is that it will be mostly buffing zergs who will steamroll over bo's and then come to keep. Buffed.
6. Rr reward for each bo after lock was to encourage players to fight for bo's instead of going straight to keep. We don't really need such system , because taking all bo's is already required if you want to sige a keep. With rewards for each bo's you will just reward zergs, who hold 4/4 bo's at the end of siege in 90% of cases. Not to mention that empty keep taking will also be rewarded, just like it was on
live dead.