Recent Topics

Ads

Restore Old School RvR rules

Share your ideas and feedback to help improve the game.
Forum rules
Before posting in this forum, please read the Terms of Use.

This section is for providing feedback and sharing your opinions on what could be improved or changed for the Return of Reckoning project.

To ensure your feedback is as helpful as possible, please review the Rules and Posting Guidelines before posting.
User avatar
talissera
Posts: 159

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#11 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:06 am

Neoyoda wrote: 3. Keep doors resetting to 100%. Back in the day the only way to get a keeps door health up was for the tank to heal it 5% each. There were hundreds of times we would prep doors to 10-5%, then peel off to take an objective to pull the defenders out of the keep, wipe the defenders, then go beat down the door and set up postern defense teams preventing people from entering the keep thus ensuring a successful siege. Keep doors shouldnt magically gain health, they should only be repaired by the tank ability which ive long forgot the name of. There were also a few times when the attackers would be on the inner door, we would repair the outer door from 0 to 5% thus trapping them in, then pour inside the postern and wipe them. Real fun times there.

4. Zones locking by taking two keeps. When this game first came out, no one knew how to lock zones. It just seemed to magically happen. Then we figured out there was a point pool and you had to have a certain amount of points to lock the zone. Each objective gave your realm points, each keep gave your realm points, completing quests gave points, killing players gave points, controlling the lower tiers gave points, and winning or being queued for the scenarios that accompanied that specific zone gave points, all of which decayed over time except keep and objectives. This required a bunch of moving parts to lock a zone, and each had to be on point and prevented the mindless zerg from locking zone after zone.
3. Atm on t3 there is no need in door keeping. Moreover, faster gates will be crushed, faster ppl can kill each other. Without ram and artillery it is useless.

4. Double edged. More ways to score, more spread people will be. At this moment most of online ppl are concentrated in one place and can clash.
Запаснаго плана нѣтъ - на всѣ Господня воля.
Мой запасный планъ - русскій авось, кокаинъ и пистоли.

Talissera 40/42 Sorceress
Valeska 38/40 Witch Hunter
Dominica 29/27 Orthodox WarPope

Ads
User avatar
Celtic
Posts: 83

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#12 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:21 am

I for one loved the old system, and now you can tell theres nothing much to fight for as in keep takes. They used to last a long time and be fantastic and challenging game play, but they were worth it with reknown and gold bags etc, i know all this is a WIP but i would like to see some of the original ideas back in play.
Littlemother - Mothermayhem - Ladyceltic - Sheerah - Whistler - Torvie - Celtix
Suicidal - Mistressofpain - Bobalicious - Discalicious - Gobalicious - Hag - Nyghtmare -

User avatar
Nishka
Suspended
Posts: 1057

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#13 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:49 am

Neoyoda wrote:I don't know about anyone else, but i really hate these hippie RvR rules. The thing i loved most about WAR was organized RvR. Ive played a dozen or so games since WAR's demise, and none have been able to compare to organizing and leading my first city siege and king kill.

Back then it was hard as hell to lock a zone, harder to take a fort, and even harder to lock the city for a king attempt. And if you were the underdog as we were, then it was damn near impossible. But that challenge was what made WAR a diamond in a sea full of dirty mmos.

Ive been told that RvR rules are the way they are because the tools havent been written yet to change them. And if thats the case, it is what it is.

But these rules I'm going to list deter any kind of organized and tactical warfare to win on the lakes. Ive also added my thoughts on each.

1. Respawning after a death spawns you in the keep. This makes defending the postern doors of a keep completely worthless. Back in the glory days if you wanted to defend a keep, you had to pray you got close enough to the walls to get rezzed in. And if the attacker was smart, they set up choke points far away from rez range to ensure victory.

2. Needing three objectives to attack a keep door. I really don't understand what this has to do with attacking a keep door. And its really stupid if you have the inner keep door at 5% and three 6 man groups take three objectives simultaneously halfway across the zone that takes 2 mins minimum to get to from the keep.

3. Keep doors resetting to 100%. Back in the day the only way to get a keeps door health up was for the tank to heal it 5% each. There were hundreds of times we would prep doors to 10-5%, then peel off to take an objective to pull the defenders out of the keep, wipe the defenders, then go beat down the door and set up postern defense teams preventing people from entering the keep thus ensuring a successful siege. Keep doors shouldnt magically gain health, they should only be repaired by the tank ability which ive long forgot the name of. There were also a few times when the attackers would be on the inner door, we would repair the outer door from 0 to 5% thus trapping them in, then pour inside the postern and wipe them. Real fun times there.

4. Zones locking by taking two keeps. When this game first came out, no one knew how to lock zones. It just seemed to magically happen. Then we figured out there was a point pool and you had to have a certain amount of points to lock the zone. Each objective gave your realm points, each keep gave your realm points, completing quests gave points, killing players gave points, controlling the lower tiers gave points, and winning or being queued for the scenarios that accompanied that specific zone gave points, all of which decayed over time except keep and objectives. This required a bunch of moving parts to lock a zone, and each had to be on point and prevented the mindless zerg from locking zone after zone.

5. Objectives not giving buffs. When you controlled objectives, your realm would get minor buffs. Either 5% increased magic damage, melee damage, ranged damage and wounds. While they werent game breaking, they did provide a benefit. And my memory may be a little rusty, but i think controlling all 4 gave you a small renown bonus as well.

6. Renown, influence and experience bonuses from the objectives and keeps you participated in on zone lock. When you would lock a zone, you would get a bonus for each objective and keep you helped take. This gave some very large ticks, so large in fact that it was better to RvR for renown than do scenarios. I remember asking my warband once why they kept following me around and they all said because i gave the best renown.


These are just some of the things i can remember off the top of my head. I could go into detail what it took to lock the original city to stage 2 so you could attack the king or warlord before they changed it to the hippie 3 stage scenarios. There is also what it took to successfully take a fort before mythic took that out as well.

I'm not sure what the devs have in mind for forts and city, but i can tell you when mythic took out forts and put in the hippie city scenarios, i quit very shortly after.

I guess the point of this whole post is wanting some actual challenge restored to the game where strategy and tactics was what brought about success, and not which side had the largest zerg.

Old school rules made it hard to succeed and even harder to get the gear for runes that allowed you to progress. t4 keep lords would cleave your raid to death and one shot your tank if they didnt have t3 gear. Fort lords would one shot your tank and cleave your raid in one shot if you didnt have t4 gear. Stage 1 boss of the city would cleave your raid in one shot if you didnt have fort gear or lost vale gear. And the length of time it took to get that gear for runes to progress was perfectly acceptable.

But ive rambled enough. Change the rules to the old school way and it will require a much more mature way to win. Or you can do what mythic did and cater to the zerg which imo destroyed the game.
1. Respawning in keep in intensifies the action. Instead of passively sitting in keep waiting for doors to go down, players can try and push out. It's especially important for melee, who can't even shoot from walls.
Resp in keep works only when the 1st gates are up, so if you wanna block people from entering a keep and get no rewards for taking that keep you just have to break the first door. Then block as much as you wish.

2. It's actually good system to encourage fighting for bo's. Without it nobody would give a **** about bo's except than in terms of rr and influence. And greed is a poor motivation for anything.
Remove the "bo's for keep" requirement and insteado of, for example, protecting ogrund, people gonna passively sit in a keep waiting for def.

3. Keep doors don't reset until the siege is over. And when the siege is over you don't want to sit in keep for 15-30 minutes waiting for door to respawn, you want to counter attack by taking enemys bo's. The system works as well-oiled mechanism, nothing to change here but, maybe, to return player's ability to restore a bit of doors health during the siege.

4. Nostalgy is good, but when you was at t1 for the last time? Being unable to lock when you have all bo's is frustrating, especially when you desperately need 3 medals to buy decimator.
PQ (which we don't have yet and no one knows when we will) requirement to lock also slows down orvr action by extracting whole wb's from pvp. When all member of 1 side make pq, what the other side is supposed to do?
But there's another nostalgy-inspired solution from the days long gone to stop zergs steamroll over zones: make keeps unresettable. If you take a keep, it remains with your faction until the other faction takes it back. Maybe someone else remember these epic whole-day long siges of the last enemy keep? That feeling of defending your "home" which every, and especially your last, keep would give when defending it? Because it was much more important to hold your" ground" when you knew it won't magically reset after some time.

5. The problem is that it will be mostly buffing zergs who will steamroll over bo's and then come to keep. Buffed.

6. Rr reward for each bo after lock was to encourage players to fight for bo's instead of going straight to keep. We don't really need such system , because taking all bo's is already required if you want to sige a keep. With rewards for each bo's you will just reward zergs, who hold 4/4 bo's at the end of siege in 90% of cases. Not to mention that empty keep taking will also be rewarded, just like it was on live dead.
Image
"Well, once there was only chaos. You ask me, order's winning". - Grandmaster Siegfried Trappenfeld

User avatar
HICKS1986
Banned
Posts: 101

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#14 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:18 am

Enough of these posts

step 1 premade scens for premade teams.

step 2 double reward for mitigated damage by tanks

step 3 sociopaths are automatically assigned into empty spots or kicked (don't like it? swan dive an empty swimming pool)

kthxbai

User avatar
Soulcheg
Posts: 936

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#15 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:29 am

Victory points with previous tiers, or with scenarios.

We need to win some points for scenarios? Nice! Hey guys, could you log your low level order/destro toons (or actual order/destro toons) in? Yes? Nice! Go into sc, and lose it a few times, so we can have a zone lock.



Why every of you always keep forgetting that we have a hundreds of active Xrealmers, which can log their opposite toons in in a matter of a seconds? :/ That's just stupid.
[RU]GreenFire. //Grimward/Albiona/Edwin/many others
Image

User avatar
Tesq
Posts: 5713

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#16 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:34 am

i agree on most of points exept the pq and sc contribution to lock which was dumb. Also VP system have his holes that get fixed with dominion system some never got fixed. But the base should still be the vp system for me.

Flag change is dumb too for me, as you said door 5% then zerg move from keep and cap 1-2 flag and the siege is done for. The idea was to spread the zerg but it's just remove the components of the Orvr which are big siege/fights..... about this just angry with some ppl on the forum which tough it's better split fights cos they hate wb zerg (initially there also was a server memory problem due to concentration of the fight which it seems noe more a general memory usage rather than a concentration of ppl; aka all server lag and not the zone as in live).

About other points some stuff cannot be implement atm.
Image

Sizer
Posts: 216

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#17 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:53 pm

#1 Was terrible because a lot of keeps its impossible to even get near a postern if you are outnumbered, so no way youd get in if you werent in before the attackers. I know you might remember it being "strategy" to defend posterns, but if you had enough people to attack a keep and cover 2 posterns and set up choke points you were seriously zerging the other side.

#2 Not a good idea either. Why care about splitting up or defending anything when 100% of your zerg can just sit on a keep and take it, and then move in a giant blob from bo to bo. I know people fantasize about these epic 100v100 fights but in reality it was usually 100v10. This the game needs some reason for attackers to split and hold bos instead of just retaking them at the end, otherwise why even have them in game. Tired of groups taking objectives when the door hits 5%? Guess what, you can split up and defend them and this wont happen!

#3 This one I dont have a problem with, but with current population it wouldnt work, since it took 20 tanks to heal a door in a reasonable time and we dont have that many people. Could work in the future.

#4 Please god no. The only way things ever flipped in the old system was either if your side outnumbered the other 4-1 or if you set up a 4am city raid. It was just terrible. I'm sure if the devs want to rework it they could pull it off, but an exact copy of the old way would be miserable. At the very least keep out pve and low tiers.

#5 Just favors the side with more numbers that has already taken everything. I wouldnt care about a 5% renown/xp buff per objective, but stat buffs should be a big no. Same reason aao should never give stat buffs.

#6 If you made all the ticks scale with # of defenders (like keeps do now) then itd be good.

Also you mention forts and king fights. EVERYONE hated that. Well not everyone, but everyone I knew who loved the game enough to stay all 5 years hated it. The wow fans (not an insult) loved it, and I get that, but this game should not be made for those people. Keep lords and bo guards are fine, forts maybe. Maybe even stage 1 of city. But stage 2/3 were literally 100% pve, and that should NOT be in this game. I really liked this games instanced pve too, but it shouldnt be part of rvr.

Not trying to sound mean but I have no idea how you think putting the old system back in would make the game require strategy instead of zerging, because it would literally do the exact opposite. There was no strategy or tactics or anything required, you just needed to have numbers. Thats why everyone hated it and thats why it was reworked. Again im sure the devs can do a better job if they desire, but restoring the old rules alone would be terrible.
Aenea - SW / Aeneaa - AM
Sizer - Shaman / Artsupplies - Sorc

User avatar
Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#18 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:09 pm

Just so you know, the reason I won't entertain tinkering with the RvR system is because the I can feel the spectre of cross-realming crawling on my back. Until we have a solution to people flipping sides to the dominant one, I don't want to change RvR.

Ads
Sizer
Posts: 216

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#19 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:14 pm

Azarael wrote:Just so you know, the reason I won't entertain tinkering with the RvR system is because the I can feel the spectre of cross-realming crawling on my back. Until we have a solution to people flipping sides to the dominant one, I don't want to change RvR.
Not trying to be rude here but I do hope this takes into account people who like flipping to the underdog side. Because when mythic fixed the 8hr locked bug out and stopped us from doing that it killed the game for people who liked chasing aao.
Aenea - SW / Aeneaa - AM
Sizer - Shaman / Artsupplies - Sorc

User avatar
Bignusty
Posts: 454

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules

Post#20 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:16 pm

FIX THE LOS ON THE KEEP DOOR and maybe some guild rvr or decent warband can do push moral or tank going out to bump push etc whitout to be killed throw the door because whit all that slayers BW choppa sorc magus engi its impossible to stay near the door and do something when peeps on defense are outnumbered

Sizer wrote:
Azarael wrote:Just so you know, the reason I won't entertain tinkering with the RvR system is because the I can feel the spectre of cross-realming crawling on my back. Until we have a solution to people flipping sides to the dominant one, I don't want to change RvR.
Not trying to be rude here but I do hope this takes into account people who like flipping to the underdog side. Because when mythic fixed the 8hr locked bug out and stopped us from doing that it killed the game for people who liked chasing aao.

90% of peeps here switching for easy rewards . Just 10% some premade guild doing AAO chasing.
Last edited by Azarael on Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed stupid colors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest