Return of Reckoning

Nishka wrote:you guys already started doing significant changes to classes that don't show up in the tooltip. Like wp mass detaunt when 2h equipped.

Genisaurus wrote:...At least not without significant discussion

The WP discussion thread was one of the most thorough and shitposting-free threads I've seen in a long time.

Well pretty simple.... Engi need a buff like every other Order classes. While we on it, give'em pounce with no cd! and AoE detaunt ofc

davispeed wrote:Well pretty simple.... Engi need a buff like every other Order classes. While we on it, give'em pounce with no cd! and AoE detaunt ofc

If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than hyperbolic strawmen, I strongly suggest you don't participate. Anyone could look at PS, a 13-point master ability, and see that it is extremely underwhelming. The fact that is needs to be changed is obvious, and the same would go for similar abilities on any other class. The only discussion to be had is how, and when.

Nishka wrote:Grenadier is already pretty viable tree, I think rifleman needs a heal debuff more.
Also, you guys already started doing significant changes to classes that don't show up in the tooltip. Like wp mass detaunt when 2h equipped.

Outgoing heal debuff would work for the best in a long-range RDPS build; might make Magis and Engis actually viable anti-healers that can pressure healers from long range. AFAIK the BW/Sorc heal debuff centers itself around willpower reduction, while the SH/SW heal debuff are at 65ft (without pet/stance). Would be fun to see, honestly.

RyanMakara wrote: anti-healers that can pressure healers from long range.

AFAIK the BW/Sorc heal debuff centers itself around willpower reduction
.

What is playing with fire then?

RyanMakara wrote:

Nishka wrote:Grenadier is already pretty viable tree, I think rifleman needs a heal debuff more.
Also, you guys already started doing significant changes to classes that don't show up in the tooltip. Like wp mass detaunt when 2h equipped.

Outgoing heal debuff would work for the best in a long-range RDPS build; might make Magis and Engis actually viable anti-healers that can pressure healers from long range. AFAIK the BW/Sorc heal debuff centers itself around willpower reduction, while the SH/SW heal debuff are at 65ft (without pet/stance). Would be fun to see, honestly.

Right now I mostly don't even bother shooting 32 lvl healers because you need to get through tons of absorbs and many healers run armor talis, so gun blast makes like 100-200 damage to them.
A heal debuff would surely help.

But you have heal debuff from a variety of other sources

I can't think of a single pressure DPS class/spec that does not have an incoming heal debuff. You're completely right that those other classes can apply it but is that part of the reason why all those other classes are considered more viable DPS than engineers?

Rifleman could do with something in T4 but it's a physical burst spec so it would get more out of changes that help with that. Things like a low health execute (either an attack or via tactic) and/or armour penetration (eg as a perk on bow/gun weapons, a tactic for certain shots or by improving the turret debuff).

Regarding the OP's point, phos shells looks terrible to riflemen because it looks just like every other grenadier ability. Lets get the masteries into the appropriate trees. Nobody in this thread has questioned that, only where to go from that starting point.

Sigimund wrote:I can't think of a single pressure DPS class/spec that does not have an incoming heal debuff.

sorc? magus? wl?

TenTonHammer wrote:

Sigimund wrote:I can't think of a single pressure DPS class/spec that does not have an incoming heal debuff.

sorc? magus? wl?

Magus is the mirror, they have similar problems to engineers. I generally think of sorc and WL as burst DPS rather than pressure DPS, although I am sure other specs are possible and these labels might mean different things to different people.